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 Is TGM for me??????

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jimmychoo
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:46 am

Khorkar wrote:
Shorthitter, for you...

"Crisp striker vs Ballhitter vs Golf Guru"

Now, we need one more top notch player...

Put in the hacker - aka hackalot. All saddam the crisp striker.....haha Laughing
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S70B
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:19 pm

That sounds about right...since he has been training in the UK. Laughing

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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:18 am

TGM is a book written 40 years ago by Homer Kelly. It is not a method of swinging however it gives all the possibilities of how to hit a golf ball. It gives all the cause and effects of different grips, take away, set ups, turns, follow throughs etc. The idea is there are many ways to swing a club and if you want to swing a certain way on your back swing, you will need to match it up on the follow thru in a certain way. The RSS is covered in the book under the description of Impact Fix. I think all instructors should read the book as it will help in understanding all the possible ways of swinging a club. If I have a student I can not get success with as a RSSer, I may as a last resort give them the match up from TGM so they can at least play to some extent. There are many ways to swing, the book will identify the benefits and disadvantages of each. It is such a difficult book to read. You need an engineering degree and as SSquirrel mentions, some TGM instructors go over the top with all the terminology which can scare off alot of students. It definitely has its place in golf teaching
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yelnats
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:44 am

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Last edited by yelnats on Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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yelnats
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:53 am

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Last edited by yelnats on Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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S70B
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:55 am

yelnats wrote:
Ok. Let's see where I should start.

First, Brian Gay isn't exactly short. He is ranked somewhere in the middle in terms of driving distance. So if you look at it, he's hitting it further than half the field.


I beg to differ on BG mate.

Driving Distance 268.2 191st
Driving Accuracy Percentage 73.27% 4th
Greens in Regulation Percentage 65.77% 71st
Putting Average 1.727 8th
Eagles (Holes per) 1,080.0 182nd
Birdie Average 3.83 29th
Scoring Average 69.50 5th
Sand Save Percentage 62.22% 5th

Stats don't lie. 268.2yds is not exactly powerhouse standards on the tour. If you watched him play in the 2 tournaments he won, he hit his driver pretty often too.

His number of eagles is also a good tell tale sign.

Its his driving accuracy and short game bringing in the money.

Anywayz, thats him. Until another unknown bursts into fame for his TGM style, then we can see if its really distance-affecting.
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yelnats
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:07 am

Apologies. I was referring to the weak he won and not the average for the year.
As mentioned to some extent by RSS and myself, TGM is not a style of swing the golf club. It basically categorizes every possible way to swing a golf club and how it can help bring structure to your game. Example, why make an arc on the putting stroke when all you have to do is trace a straight plane line and you end up with an arc. It is easier to see a straight line then a curve.

Every professional golfer's swing is well covered by TGM. I think it is important to know that TGM is not a David Leadbetter, Harmon or Haney style. It is not Stack & Tilt or a right sided swing. TGM basically was Mr Kelley's work on categorizing the golf swing. All the other swings I mention are not wrong. They have their day in the sun because they do work (but for certain individuals). TGM is complex for most people because it is complete.

As Lynn Blake said, it's completeness is also it's curse Smile
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:12 am

Agree that BG is not noted as a powerhouse on the Tour. He can definitely roll his rock and hits it real straight off the tee. The most important stat is Scoring Average 5th, Money List 9th with $2,782,235, Wins = 2. He is gonna struggle to win a major due to his length but he has found a way to compete against the big guns. As for length, I don't think it is that important. Look at Bubba Watson. Hits it a mile but how many times has he won, Zero. Guys like BG will have a big advantage next year when the rules change regarding the grooves. He hits it in the fairway, controls his ball and can putt. Fred Funk was a similar golfer. Straight but not long. He did pretty well on tour. Next year will see the bombers fade into the background and the pure strikers who can control their ball will be a force again.
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yelnats
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:17 am

RSC....good point. Most golfers judge a swing method's effectiveness based on distance. Seeing how a golfer only hit 14 shots max with the driver, I'd definitely want to be more accurate on my irons, wedges and putter.
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yelnats
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:29 am

mervyntan wrote:
i have read parts of the book before. it is filled with arcane terminology and so on and so forth. best to get someone like justin who's experienced in TGM and trained in its techniques to give u a lesson. i reckon it would be extremely frustrating for a beginner in TGM to go through the book by himself.

that said, TGM was invented by a non-golfer, so..... u have to decide. haha

Just to clarify. TGM was written by Homer Kelley. Kelley’s quest initially was brought about by two rounds of golf: his first, in which he shot a 116; and his second, a short time later, where he scored a 77.
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S70B
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:05 am

For the record, I am not suggesting that distance is more important than accuracy. I was merely pointing out how much he's lacking distance swinging the way he does.

TGM might have its merits. You don't need rocket science knowledge or high IQ to know accuracy pays off better. However, too much of an extreme will take a toll on your game. I'm willing to take the slightly off-line hits with a 7iron in my hand playing from the 1st cut rather than a long iron from the fairway.

End of the day, a good balance of both power and accuracy is the ultimate desire of every golfer. Fred Funk being so accurate had a curse where he was outdriven by Annika during his exhibition match. You don't see BG shooting low numbers day in day out or Fred Funk winning every week on the Champion's tour even with their accuracy. Wink

Not dissing any method or idealogy of the swing. Looking at it, we need to look at swing methods with an open mind and understand that one's potential is really how determined you are to practice and learn the complete game. Swinging it well is only part of how to play good.

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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:08 am

Hi S70B,

I find it so refreshing to find a personality such as yourself who is truly a student of the game. Open minded yet offering critical food for thought.

I personally know BG's procedure from the fact that he is a student of my friend Lynn Blake.
Brian doesnt hit the ball as far as the rest because accuracy is preferable to him rather than distance - the man does keep some in reserve.

There are different procedures for hitting far and hitting straight - yes, there is a tradeoff unless you have a world class left hip (like Greg Norman in the 70s-80s) and Popeye's forearms (Tiger Woods). Please see attached pic of a former Golfing Machine prince in the 80s, John Erickson, for the difference in procedures.

One needs to understand that TGM is not a method rather, it is a system that catalogues the entire golf swing from right to wrong. It can show you why what you are doing / teaching is right and help you continue doing it. Misguided instructors use the book to criticise other schools of thought which is exactly what Mr. Kelley was against.

There are quadrillion ways of swinging a club correctly and it is all in the book, The Golfing Machine.


S70B wrote:
For the record, I am not suggesting that distance is more important than accuracy. I was merely pointing out how much he's lacking distance swinging the way he does.

TGM might have its merits. You don't need rocket science knowledge or high IQ to know accuracy pays off better. However, too much of an extreme will take a toll on your game. I'm willing to take the slightly off-line hits with a 7iron in my hand playing from the 1st cut rather than a long iron from the fairway.

End of the day, a good balance of both power and accuracy is the ultimate desire of every golfer. Fred Funk being so accurate had a curse where he was outdriven by Annika during his exhibition match. You don't see BG shooting low numbers day in day out or Fred Funk winning every week on the Champion's tour even with their accuracy. Wink

Not dissing any method or idealogy of the swing. Looking at it, we need to look at swing methods with an open mind and understand that one's potential is really how determined you are to practice and learn the complete game. Swinging it well is only part of how to play good.
[img][/img]
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:29 am

can u explain the pictures??
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shotah
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:33 am

ANy swing that doesn't require much effort and still can hit the ball is the swing for me. hehehe... personally, my favourite is still Fred Couples's Swing. Can anybody enlighten me what kind of swing is that? Hopefully is a chapalang swing. Smile
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:41 am

Yes, I can. But let's work this thru together so you learn more. Observe the arm positions - tell me what you see.
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Ssquirrel
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:48 am

Is the red line club face?
Are the pictures supposed to illustrate hinge actions?
Left one with open clubface looks like vertical hinging/layback? the right one looks like maybe angled hinging?
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:11 am

I only can tell the extension on the pictures on the right and down the target line.
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:05 am

The main flaw I see with TGM instructors is how they make their students practice the Flat Left Wrist. Here is Lynn Blake demonstrating what I believe is a delofted club and too extended from the body


That doesn't look right to me. Fair enough it is not scooping but that is one extreme to another
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yelnats
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:02 pm

The picture on the left is swinging and the one on the right is hitting? Picture on the right appears to have the right shoulder supporting the right fore arm powering thru the aiming point.
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:04 pm

Worse than that....... Is he hitting off the GREEN??????? lol!
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yelnats
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:07 pm

I chip about 200 balls a day with this drill. It's more to feel the club head not taking over the hands too soon. I have seen quite a few of Lynn's swings and even at slow motion, this position does not happen. Like all good ball strikers, he has a flat left wrist and bent right wrist at impact but no as extreme as in the pic.

Right_sided_coach wrote:
The main flaw I see with TGM instructors is how they make their students practice the Flat Left Wrist. Here is Lynn Blake demonstrating what I believe is a delofted club and too extended from the body


That doesn't look right to me. Fair enough it is not scooping but that is one extreme to another
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redbull
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:16 pm

The Golfing Machine wrote:
Yes, I can. But let's work this thru together so you learn more. Observe the arm positions - tell me what you see.

Let me try...

The top pics = not tracing the target

bottom pics = tracing target line...one of the imperatives of TGM! cheers
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quinike
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:29 pm

Hi Golfing Machine,

im quite interested to know more about TGM.

From the pics, it just looks to me that the left one has an square face at impact, and the face remains square in relation to the arms post impact?

The pic on right has it more tiger woods style - down the line and with pronation of the arms and hence club face.

Please advise!
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Elbry
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:38 pm

For me, maybe my eye sight is bad, couldn't really see the club face clearly, but what was obvious to me was left pictures : arms rather close to the body, right pictures arms sorta extending or angled outwards away from the body.

At set up, for the left and right pictures, are the distance and position between the golf ball and feet the same?
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:20 pm

shotah wrote:
ANy swing that doesn't require much effort and still can hit the ball is the swing for me. hehehe... personally, my favourite is still Fred Couples's Swing. Can anybody enlighten me what kind of swing is that? Hopefully is a chapalang swing. Smile

Fred Couples used to play high level baseball and as such has stronger than average arms with a very stable lower body. Swing looks smooth but deceptively powerful.
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