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 Is TGM for me??????

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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:22 pm

Ssquirrel wrote:
Is the red line club face?
Are the pictures supposed to illustrate hinge actions?
Left one with open clubface looks like vertical hinging/layback? the right one looks like maybe angled hinging?

Angled hinging is correct, however notice that John's arms are tighter to the body. This allows him to utilise the full mass of his pivot and maintain pivot rhythm.
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:38 pm

Right_sided_coach wrote:
The main flaw I see with TGM instructors is how they make their students practice the Flat Left Wrist. Here is Lynn Blake demonstrating what I believe is a delofted club and too extended from the body


That doesn't look right to me. Fair enough it is not scooping but that is one extreme to another

Right_sided_coach,

Your observation is very accurate. Most TGM instructors go off the other side of the ditch so to speak in an effort to get rid of a scoop at impact.

This was the problem that Charles Howell III encountered earlier this millenium. With his hands way forward at the point of impact, he had to use a 10.5 deg driver to get a high enough launch angle on his tee shots to get enough carry.

TGM instructors do go off track in their interpretations of Mr. Kelley's legacy at times without the benefit of having heard from him. I am one of the more fortunate guys in that I am one of the few in the world who has footage of Mr. Kelley teaching and his seminar audios.

Lynn's demonstration of impact here causes a too delofted club face for the shot to be of any use except from under a tree. That his arms are disconnected from the body also means that his rhythm would be more by accident.

Ideally, we want the shaft and left arm to be more vertical to the ground with the arms tight to the body.


Last edited by The Golfing Machine on Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:40 pm

Elbry wrote:
For me, maybe my eye sight is bad, couldn't really see the club face clearly, but what was obvious to me was left pictures : arms rather close to the body, right pictures arms sorta extending or angled outwards away from the body.

At set up, for the left and right pictures, are the distance and position between the golf ball and feet the same?

Thats it...arms tight in - just like when one is executing a punch shot.
Rare is the shot that goes wild when punched. Mac O'Grady once said that a proper golf shot is nothing more than a punch with a finish.
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:46 pm

Here is a video of Tiger...see how the arms go left after impact?
Very different from the swing out to right field / down the line action commonly taught.

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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:03 am

Pardon my ignorance and noobie-ness.

But how does one practice TGM in Singapore with all the grass mat ranges in Singapore.

Looking at the first illustration by yelnats, bottom of the swing is the end of the divot, am i right?

All is fine and dandy on the course, as we can dig up chunks and chunks but as long as we will our divots up, it should be fine. but I think if we try to practice the right thing at the range with 200 balls, I can see some TCM sin-seh, bone-setters and physio docs making big bucks from us! and not to mention some HCs too....
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:33 am

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
Pardon my ignorance and noobie-ness.

But how does one practice TGM in Singapore with all the grass mat ranges in Singapore.

Looking at the first illustration by yelnats, bottom of the swing is the end of the divot, am i right?

All is fine and dandy on the course, as we can dig up chunks and chunks but as long as we will our divots up, it should be fine. but I think if we try to practice the right thing at the range with 200 balls, I can see some TCM sin-seh, bone-setters and physio docs making big bucks from us! and not to mention some HCs too....

When you practice at the range you dont strike down as if taking divot?
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:37 am

shorthitter wrote:
mUAr_cHEe wrote:
Pardon my ignorance and noobie-ness.

When you practice at the range you dont strike down as if taking divot?

Then how are you able to practice TGM off the course?

I just think the range is an ideal place for training. It is forgiving and you can just focus making the kind of shots, rather than on the course, if you get OB, you lose a ball. You got to get to your faraway ball.
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:39 am

Sorry, I was asking you if you practice taking a divot, not saying you should'nt take one....
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:56 am

The Golfing Machine wrote:
Here is a video of Tiger...see how the arms go left after impact?
Very different from the swing out to right field / down the line action commonly taught.


This is the same position we teach in the Right Sided Swing. The club and hands move around the body, not extend down the line.

The extending down the line results in a flip with the wrists and a lack of control of distance and direction. As is the case with Mickelson, Vijay, Love III. Most call it a release, we think it is a flip. This down the line, extending and flipping gives you either blocks right or hooks to the left as the wrist angles change, causing the club face to close



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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:17 am

kiwi, i practise my driver, woods and hybrid more.

I just use irons to warm up. but when i do use my irons, i focus on the contact with the ball and just let everything else follow through naturally. and yes, my left arm and elbow hurts after a few shots.
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:26 am

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
kiwi, i practise my driver, woods and hybrid more.

I just use irons to warm up. but when i do use my irons, i focus on the contact with the ball and just let everything else follow through naturally. and yes, my left arm and elbow hurts after a few shots.

Big tough bloke like you?? In pain??? dont believe.... lol!
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yelnats
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:02 pm

Hitting of the grass is the ideal situation. Chipping on grass helps.
When you are hitting off the mat, you are swinging along the target line. Hitting off grass allows you to swing along the plane line. Which is as you have said, the end of the divot (which happens to be down and out).

That's why chipping can actually help improve your ball striking.

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
Pardon my ignorance and noobie-ness.

But how does one practice TGM in Singapore with all the grass mat ranges in Singapore.

Looking at the first illustration by yelnats, bottom of the swing is the end of the divot, am i right?

All is fine and dandy on the course, as we can dig up chunks and chunks but as long as we will our divots up, it should be fine. but I think if we try to practice the right thing at the range with 200 balls, I can see some TCM sin-seh, bone-setters and physio docs making big bucks from us! and not to mention some HCs too....
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:47 pm

So that is why Lynn Blake focus alot on chipping and how chipping is a part of the whole swing?
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:16 pm

Yes. If you look at the pros swing sequence, you will see that at impact and after (say about 2 feet past), they all have a flat left wrist and bent right wrist. Regardless of the school of thought, most will concur that this is an imperative at impact.

Left hand controls club face and right hand controls the club head and shaft.

If a golfer has problem getting the flat left bent right on a small chip, it is almost guaranteed that they will not have it in their full swing. There are really a lot of benefits to chip off the chipping green.

Work on the smaller strokes first. It's no surprise that Tiger was thought hot to putt first. Basically Mr Earl Woods thought him the game of golf from the green to the tee box; as opposed to what we are usually thought.

Hitting down into the ground and feeling a flat left is probably one of the best things you can do for your golf. You will be surprise how this little motion can make a difference in your full swing.
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:18 pm

BTW, the above comment on Tiger was highlighted by Bobby Clampett in he's book the Impact Zone.
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:51 pm

redbull wrote:
The Golfing Machine wrote:
Yes, I can. But let's work this thru together so you learn more. Observe the arm positions - tell me what you see.

Let me try...

The top pics = not tracing the target

bottom pics = tracing target line...one of the imperatives of TGM! cheers

One is utilizing the Arc of Approach and the other the Angle of Approach.
Good that you mentioned the Imperative...

There are 3 Essentials and 3 Imperatives...there are another 3 fundamentals not mentioned in The Golfing Machine that produces these 6 things.
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:52 pm

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
So that is why Lynn Blake focus alot on chipping and how chipping is a part of the whole swing?

Put in another way, your chip stroke is really the impact zone of your full swing.
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:54 pm

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
shorthitter wrote:
mUAr_cHEe wrote:
Pardon my ignorance and noobie-ness.

When you practice at the range you dont strike down as if taking divot?

Then how are you able to practice TGM off the course?

I just think the range is an ideal place for training. It is forgiving and you can just focus making the kind of shots, rather than on the course, if you get OB, you lose a ball. You got to get to your faraway ball.

Ideally, we teach using an impact bag...
Everyone ought to have one at home...after training with it, you can sit on it to watch the telly...
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:07 pm

Right_sided_coach wrote:
The Golfing Machine wrote:
Here is a video of Tiger...see how the arms go left after impact?
Very different from the swing out to right field / down the line action commonly taught.


This is the same position we teach in the Right Sided Swing. The club and hands move around the body, not extend down the line.

The extending down the line results in a flip with the wrists and a lack of control of distance and direction. As is the case with Mickelson, Vijay, Love III. Most call it a release, we think it is a flip. This down the line, extending and flipping gives you either blocks right or hooks to the left as the wrist angles change, causing the club face to close




Very nice pics Right Side...couldn't agree more with you. Those who teach an out to the right move, think this is OVER THE TOP. It couldn't be further from the truth. It will only be OTT if the shaft didnt drop on the downswing to the 4:30 line.

I am a BIG FAN of Peter Senior...He has what I think to be one of the best footwork in the business when he was waxing everyone on tour left right and center.
BIG BIG Advocate of that high statuesque finish which allows the man to hold as much shaft flex as possible...
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:16 pm

Interesting thing is that Tiger does not look the same way at impact with his Driver. He is the best iron player on tour but not so great with the driver. His driver is the extended down the line and flipped with the wrists


Some days he can't hit a fairway. Lots of blocks right
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:19 pm

Ben Hogan, the best ball striker ever had the same impact with his driver and his irons. There is definitely something all our Right Sided players do as well
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:23 pm

Tiger Woods vs Ben Hogan - Irons


Tiger Woods vs Ben Hogan - Woods


For Tiger to take his ball striking to the level of Hogan, I believe he needs to get his driver swing the same as his irons
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:41 pm

Sergio should give lessons to Tiger...

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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:48 pm

I see a very common pattern here among the best ball strikers and a pattern among the bad ones. So extending and releasing/flipping aint the way to go!!
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PostSubject: Re: Is TGM for me??????   Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:57 pm

Very true. Love the photos.
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