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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:52 pm

Been thinking of the 282s, but I might be able to get a good price on a Supertri, so it's a tough choice for me. Trying to get my hands on a 9* 282 might also be a bit tricky, but you're one of many people I know who swear by the 282s, and I reckon they will still hold their value for some time.

As for Miura, no offence taken. I got mine as a gift from my wife for Xmas 2009, and I'm not the only one who notices the difference in feel, but also a number of the chaps at the Butch Harmon school here. We tried a blind test between a couple of my sets once, and they were able to tell the Miura without looking at the back of the club.

I do have a personal preference for TM, though it's recently expanded to Titleist and Srixon Smile
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Yarra
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:17 pm

ghoonk,

I still play mostly TM but I've been trying out Adams lately. Love their 3 woods and hybrids. 3446-F knocked my 07 Burner TP outta my bag and the Idea Pro hybrid replaces my 07 Burner hybrid. Still not quite like their drivers. Feels and sound funny, although I must admit that performance-wise they are not that far off of 282's.

Trying to get my hands on a set of a4 PVD iron heads... Looks like it's gonna happen soon. Wink
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:23 am

There's someone with a set of Adams A4 PVD on WRX, go check it out. Asking USD550, I think. Been toying with the idea of other brands, but have been happy with TM and Titleist FW woods, so hence reluctant to change, esp since these have made a huge difference in my game, being able to close in from long range, or trade distance for accuracy on tight fairways

Adams isn't big in Singapore, but if I had my way, I'd put a bag together containing a 9032LS driver, the FWs you recommended, a new Pro Black hybrid, the Pro Black blades with the KBS Tour Black Nickel shafts, and TM wedges Smile
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:18 am

the pro black looks good...

it may be good that they are not so popular in SG so will not be so expensive.

bad is they dun have alot of model available
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Yarra
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:46 pm

ghoonk wrote:
There's someone with a set of Adams A4 PVD on WRX, go check it out. Asking USD550, I think. Been toying with the idea of other brands, but have been happy with TM and Titleist FW woods, so hence reluctant to change, esp since these have made a huge difference in my game, being able to close in from long range, or trade distance for accuracy on tight fairways

Adams isn't big in Singapore, but if I had my way, I'd put a bag together containing a 9032LS driver, the FWs you recommended, a new Pro Black hybrid, the Pro Black blades with the KBS Tour Black Nickel shafts, and TM wedges Smile

Have been in negotiating term with him since yesterday morning... Just haven't decided if I should switch iron that quickly. Been playing my r7 TP since early 2007 only, not time to change yet... Wink
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Yarra
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:49 pm

weesern wrote:
the pro black looks good...

it may be good that they are not so popular in SG so will not be so expensive.

bad is they dun have alot of model available

To me, it is not important how many models they got. The imnportant thing is: how many quality product they produce. TM got a lot of product to offer but I do not think they produced a significantly better product between their cycle. The last TM driver that stands out to me, in terms of performance, is the Superquad 282 Proto. Been a few yers. The R9 was great in terms of tweakability, but not surpassing the performance of the 282...
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:55 pm

Ah, but based on what you said, the R9 is as good as the 282s, and seeing that the prices of the R9 are falling pretty quick (more so than the 282s anyway), wouldn't it make sense to get the R9 over the 282 if they perform as well, with the R9 being more tweakable?
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Yarra
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:17 pm

The R9 is great for tweakability, but the 282 is great in terms of overall performance. I have been conducting a series of testing lately. I got a 282-Kai'Li driver (9.5*, 1* open, stiff Kai'Li) versus R9 and R9 460 (both 9.5*). I rotated the shafts in the R9s: PX's 6C12, Fubuki Tour Proto 73 stiff and Griffin 53 stiff. All clubs were set to similar spec, 1* open.

I found that the 282 combo is very long, longer than any R9 combos. It gives me a flat trajectory with nice soft-fade or soft-draw in demand.

The R9 460 is coupled best with the PX graphite shaft. It gives similar ball flight, slightly higher, but the distance (on average) is about 10-15 yards short of the 282.

The smaller R9 is best hit with Griffin. It gives a similar ball flight to the R9 460-6C12 combo, still a little higher than the 282 det-up. Distance-wise it is about 5-10 yards short of my 282.

However, the biggest advantage of the R9 460 is forgiveness. It is so forgiving that the PX shaft seems like a breeze to hit.

So, all in all, while R9s now command reasonable value, it still doesn't beat the performance of a 282 head. I like the R9s for its adjustability, i.e. I can adjust that driver to help my swing when it is off. But on a good day, I'd go with my 282. That's why I am selling my R9s and my old, trusty 07 Burner. Wink
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:24 pm

I see your point. Time to start shopping around for a 282 Smile
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Yarra
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:31 pm

LOL! Got one for sale over here... But with all those discounted price on the WRX Forum and ebay, his is expensive. Asking for US$700, shipped anywhere in the world.
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:32 pm

Guess that also depends on the shaft, but USD700 is stupid money he's asking for unless it's brand new and someone wants one for the wall rack to show off Very Happy
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Yarra
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:35 pm

Exactly... Thinking of getting it for myself, but for the asking price I'd rather shop around somewehre else... Evil or Very Mad
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:42 pm

Saw a couple of 282 heads on eBay, pricing looks okay, around USD400 per head, and I have a couple of shafts that would be right at home in that head.
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Yarra
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:46 pm

You need to go lower-launching shaft or go a full degree lower on the 282 head. It is a high-launching head... But it gives you a flat trajectory at the top. Nice! Very Happy

If you ever come down to Jakarta, contact me. I'll let you hit mine! Razz
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:48 pm

Got a job offer in Indonesia, currently considering it. How are the courses there and is it generally a safe place to work? Smile
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Yarra
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:53 pm

The golf courses are generally nice. We got a lot more around Jakarta area than you do in your entire country! LOL!!! As for the living condition, I'll PM you so that this thread will remain as it is...
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eden
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:59 pm

Yarra wrote:
ghoonk,

I agreed with you 100% in saying that tour clubs are useless without proper fitting. I didn't pay 5-fold literally, bot most guys think tour clubs are 5 times more expensive and much more harder to play. They assume that world's best players must be superheroes, impossible for us, mere mortals, to play the same club as they do! Very Happy

Just curious, if tour clubs are useless without proper fitting; isnt it better to just simply get fitted clubs from the start instead of getting used (probably bashed by 130mph swing speed) heads and then try out different shafts to find the ideal launch condition?

If i assume (please correct me if i am wrong):
driver head = SGD400
shaft = SGD300
total = SGD700

one could easily get a brand new driver fitted with the ideal loft, lie, shaft, grip, length.

same with any other club, be it irons, hybrid, woods or putter.

the only difference that i can see is that the brand might not be as commonly known (nakashima, ikasu, miura, yuji etc). all these brands, from what i know would measure every single head to ensure that it meets the golfer's specification.

please enlighten.
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Yarra
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:17 pm

eden wrote:
Yarra wrote:
ghoonk,

I agreed with you 100% in saying that tour clubs are useless without proper fitting. I didn't pay 5-fold literally, bot most guys think tour clubs are 5 times more expensive and much more harder to play. They assume that world's best players must be superheroes, impossible for us, mere mortals, to play the same club as they do! Very Happy

Just curious, if tour clubs are useless without proper fitting; isnt it better to just simply get fitted clubs from the start instead of getting used (probably bashed by 130mph swing speed) heads and then try out different shafts to find the ideal launch condition?

If i assume (please correct me if i am wrong):
driver head = SGD400
shaft = SGD300
total = SGD700

one could easily get a brand new driver fitted with the ideal loft, lie, shaft, grip, length.

same with any other club, be it irons, hybrid, woods or putter.

the only difference that i can see is that the brand might not be as commonly known (nakashima, ikasu, miura, yuji etc). all these brands, from what i know would measure every single head to ensure that it meets the golfer's specification.

please enlighten.

Tour heads are usually of the highest quality, hand-picked in the production facilities and has been going through an extensive of quality control. They should be, after all these heads are prepared to be played by the best and most demanding players on the planet. Tour heads usually have different weights than the retail. Woods head usually are lighter so that they can inject hotmelt to adjust the head, accoutic and CG location desired by each player. For the case of irons and wedges, they are usually heavier so that they can be ground to spec for the player.

Having said that, I always try to buy new tour issue club so that I can build it according to my liking (sounds a like a pro, but I am pretty picky of what I use). For example, TM (tour heads or not) usually sounds tinny. I like to put some hotmelt to mute the sound and make it draw-biased as most tour heads are open. In some cases, I can also bend the face angle from open to square or even slightly closed.

In other words, there are a lot of parameter to play around with with these heads. If I have to buy used head, I'd make sure the previous owner has the exact spec of the club. I do not buy used tour heads unles it is so much closer to my own spec! See, I am a picky motherf**ker!

With retail heads, you can do that too. The trick is, you have to ask the clubmaker to hand pick a specific head weight, loft, lie and face angle for you. They do difer from club to club even for the same make and type! Being mass-produced, they'd tolerate that as long as it is within a certain limit.

I got a few clubmaker friends base din the US and I ask them to do this for me from time to time. Some of them can even out hotmelt into the head. Works out wonder, but the cost I paid for their time to search for the right don't justify it. I might as well buy a tour head.

Those brands you mentioned ARE NOT tour brand. They simply OEMs which offer tour-like services for you to tweak around your equipment according to your specs. Just like the tour issue products that I get, only they cater for anyone who pays them instead of tour-players and people who has close connection to them!

Would they play as good? Might be better, because they are not bound to a certain rules and limitations. But I might prefer the tour heads instead of those exotics because tour stuffs look exactly like retail stuffs only better inside. I don't like to be a stand-out in the crowds for my notable expensive equipments. Not where I currently live, at least... Wink

hope this helps...
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:26 pm

In theory, you are not wrong. I could take a retail head, match it to the right shaft, play around with weights and still get similar results to tour issued clubs, maybe even better.

As Yarra explained earlier, there may be subtle differences in tour issued equipment that may not immediately be apparent to the casual golfer.

For example, TM has a series of tour-only fairway woods -- HFS and ALE (Alternate Leading Edge) which is designed for players who have better ballstriking (HFS has a smaller face, more compact head, and a more solid feel) or for tour players who tend to dig their fairway woods in softer ground conditions (ALE versions have a leading edge designed to minimize 'dig'). Tour drivers are also modified with hot melt for a more solid and traditional feel that many tour players prefer, and more face angle options are available beyond retail -- e.g. R9 allows you up to 1* of face angle to either open or closed, but in doing so, it may also affect loft and lie. A tour-issued version may be available in the loft and lie that you want, in the face angle that you want.

As such, tour issued equipment makes sense if you know what you are looking for.
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TNRM
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:31 pm

Yarra: You mentioned that you sometimes buy new tour heads. By its very nature, aren't tour heads distributed only to tour players via the tour vans? In which case, if you are able to purchase them new, then someone somewhere must have taken them from the tour van and sell them? Sorry for the pedantic questions but was just naturally curious how your procuement process works. For all you know, I may want to jump onto the tour equipment bandwagon.
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Yarra
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:37 pm

Happens to have some friends who work in the industry and can hook me up to these kinds of things. Not only that, I sometimes manage to get some tour prototype too. Shafts and heads that are distributed to players and people (merchants, suppliers, shop owners, clubfitters, etc.) who has accounts with the OEM to try out (and give feedback) before they finalize which version should make it into production.
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TNRM
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:44 pm

Ahhh..... ok..... Let's just hope that the finance departments of these OEMs don't monitor these pages.
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Yarra
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:59 pm

LOL!!!
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Tituman
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:05 pm

Bomb Squad Golf is an elite golfers Forum. They pride themselves as a special class above other golf forums. Things there are pretty xe and they have Tour issued equipments for sale with prices as high as USD 1,100 each for the R9 Tour Issued. But you can be assured that the stuff there are genuine.

titu
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: Tour Issue Equipment   Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:08 pm

Yarra, we should meet up one day Smile

Another thing -- I have 2 sets of TM RAC MBs, both Miura forged, both tour-issued. I sent them in to my fitter here in Dubai to have them blueprinted and guess what, when the shafts were pulled, and the hosels were cleaned, he noticed that the heads were all very well balanced within close tolerances. I thought this was supposed to be pretty normal, but he brought out several set of retail heads from leading brands and weighed each head in front of me.

We plotted out the head weights and the result was that the weights were all over the place compared to the tour-issued ones. Not one set of the TM RAC MBs, but both sets. Point is, there is a difference in manufacturing tolerances.
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