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 Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?

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dunlookback
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PostSubject: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:24 pm

Hi, for those who have played wif me, I have always struggled with my driver distance for the past 3yrs

I used to be able to hit beyond 210m but now the average is 190m. I have tried almost all drivers and exotic shafts. I also have make several attempts to change my swings but all in vain.

Recently, I start to reflect and wondered the distance I got 3yrs ago is it due to smaller head. Since I am at my wits end, I went to get a 360cc titleist 983k diver and went to the range.

AMAZINGLY, my drive striking improved!!! I am near to my old distance!!! When I go back to the large drivers I have, the distance starts to drop...

I dunno the science behind but for me it surely works! Wonder any bros out there has the answer or if you wan you can pick up that small driver and give it a go!

All the best and hopefully someone can enlighten this incident Surprised Cool
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DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:45 pm

its MOI.....some players can use high MOI, square and different shapes. Some cannot.

you probably use a blade putter and irons that feature a thin top line.

DGman
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HyBriD
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:47 pm

Hey,

after reading your post, I am imagining how Bobby Jones & Jack Nicklaus could drive their golf ball beyond 250yards just by using those small persimon wood driver.

And am now wondering, How long could Bobby Jones and Jack Nicklaus ( if they are still in their prime ) drive their golf ball using Modern Golf Drivers vis-a-vis Persimon wood driver ???

Somehow, smaller club head and lighter shaft helped produced faster swing speed for you....

Or your 460cc driver head shaft is not suited for your swing speed.

Have you checked your swing speed via launch monitor???
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:21 pm

There was an article in a recent issue of Golf Digest, the driver review issue a month or two ago there they covered something along this topic --

bigger drivers have lower MOI but deliver greater distance when struck in the sweetspot. On the other hand, smaller drivers have higher MOI (according to the article) and the sweetspot area is supposed to be larger across the face, hence easier to hit, therefore more distance.

DGman, any truth in that?

by the way, I just 'switched to my Titleist 905R with Diamana Blueboard 73x S-flex and for some reason, my drives are longer...
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alvin7379
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:49 pm

My first driver was a very old Callaway Big Bertha Warbird... not sure what is the cc of the head but definitely way smaller than 460... looks more like a FW to me now that I am looking at it.

Not sure if it will give better distance than the newer technology of the bigger driver heads... but it has surely helped me in training to hit more sweet spots because of the smaller face! Razz
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:07 am

Currently I have my 400c Launcher and 460cc Sumo......

When times are good ie swing is good, the 400cc actually give me more or almost equivalent distance...

But the 460cc...is more suited for all occasion (bad swing or good swing..) it is macam the All Terrain Vehicle
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:28 am

Actually, if the GD article is correct, then the inverse should be true. Gonna see if i can find the copy and take a pic and post it to share.
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hoelwill
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:31 am

My 975D outbeat my mizzy 460 too..i thought smaller head cut through the air with less resistance, which adds to the swing speed...but 975D is really small nowadays...
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:38 am

Yeah, tell me about it. I have a 975D that I was looking to have fitted for my game Smile
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:08 am

That is why i prefer less than 460cc driver heads...

*grumble grumble*

but given the course conditions in guam and all thanks to the ilima, my 2nd shot for a 468 yards par 5 is a 100 yards 56˚ behind 2 coconut trees. no prizes for guessing what i scored for that hole.

for the record, using R9 SuperTri with ilima 70S.
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dunlookback
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:43 am

DGMAN you are spot on! It is same for my irons. I play better with the "no name warrior" blades then cavity.

For fitting, i dun tink it play such a big part for this improvement as I used so many drivers and shaft combinations but never had such an improvement.

I am curious if the air resistance mentioned here do really play a part.

Anyway smaller heads have better feel IMHO too!
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DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:39 am

boys..i usually dont like to cut and paste but this subject very chim and my england is not so good so i better borrow a line from the guru..Tom Wishon.

Question: What is Moment of Inertia (MOI)?

Answer: "Moment of inertia," or MOI, is a property of physics that indicates the relative difference in how easy or difficult it will be to set any object in motion about a defined axis of rotation. The higher the MOI of an object, the more force will have to be applied to set that object in a rotational motion. Conversely, the lower the MOI, the less force needed to make the object rotate about an axis.

To understand MOI, think of a spinning ice skater. At the beginning of the spin, the skater extends her arms and the rotation speed is slow. As the skater pulls her arms in closer to her body, the speed of the spin greatly increases. Thus when the arms are extended, the skater’s Moment of Inertia is very high, and the result is a slower spin because the high MOI of the skater is resisting the speed of rotation. Conversely, the reason the spin speed increases when the skater pulls in her arms is that as the arms get closer to her body, the skater's MOI falls lower and lower, creating little resistance to the rotation.

There are several different moments of inertia that are factors in the performance of a golf club. Remember, MOI has to first be defined by identifying what axis the object is rotating around. There is an MOI for the whole golf club which, when swung, is "rotated" around the golfer during the swing.

There are also three different MOIs which can be measured for the clubhead itself. Two of these MOIs are important in the design of any clubhead.

First, when you hit a shot off the center of the face, even though the head is secured to a shaft, the head will try to rotate around the vertical axis going through the clubhead's center of gravity. Second, and at the same time, when the golfer swings the club on the downswing, the clubhead is rotating around the axis through the center of the shaft.

The first example refers to the MOI of the clubhead about its center of gravity. In marketing terms, this is the head design property that has a bearing on the amount of "forgiveness" a clubhead offers for off-center strikes. The larger the clubhead, and/or the more the designer incorporates perimeter weighting, the higher the MOI of the clubhead about its center of gravity vertical axis will be. The higher the MOI of the head about its vertical CG axis, the less the head will twist in response to an off-center hit, and the less distance will be lost from that off-center hit.

The smaller the head and the more head weight is positioned close to the center of the head, the lower the MOI of the head will be around its vertical CG axis, and the more distance will be lost when the ball is hit off center.

Again, higher MOI = more resistance to the object being rotated around an axis; lower MOI = less resistance to the object rotating around an axis.

The second example refers to the MOI of the clubhead about the shaft axis. Little is spoken about this MOI in equipment marketing, but it is an important head design factor that can affect the accuracy of the shot, not the distance. The bigger the head or the more weight that is placed far out on the toe of the clubhead, the higher the MOI of the head will be about the shaft's axis. The smaller the head or the more weight that is positioned in the heel area of the head, the lower the MOI of the head will be about the shaft's axis. The higher the clubhead MOI around the shaft, the more tendency there is for a golfer to leave the face open at impact. The lower the clubhead MOI around the shaft, the more tendency there is for a golfer to rotate the face more closed at impact.

As stated earlier, the whole golf club also has an MOI. The longer the club, the heavier the head, the heavier the total weight of the head, shaft and grip added together, the higher the MOI will be for the whole club. Conversely, the shorter the club, the lighter the head, the lower the weight of the head, shaft and grip, then the lower the MOI will be for the club.

The MOI of the club is important to matching the swing feel of all the clubs in the bag. Clubfitting theory states that if all clubs in a set are made to have the same, identical MOI, the golfer will be more consistent because each club will require the same effort to swing.

The current method for matching clubs in swing feel is called swingweight matching. Swingweight is an expression of the ratio of the weight in the grip end of the club to the weight in the rest of the club on down to the clubhead. Swingweight-matched golf clubs are not matched for MOI, but come relatively close to MOI matching.

___________________________________________________________________________

My view - High MOI is more forgiving but may "appear" to take more effort to swing, low MOI is less forgiving but may have less resistance to twisting. thats why Nike made a 380 for TW to match his most preferred driver, i think it was the 975D.

choosing the right size is all very personal. i recently took a r9 4 wood out for a 9 hole round. i hit 3 shots on the par 4 and i still cannot setup comfortably particularly the tail shape, so Alvin7379, my loss is your gain.

Some years ago i analyse (using Zelocity) a very competent golfer who have spend tons of money (elsewhere) on the latest shafts and the best new technology there was to offer. i did a analysis of his 7 irons, PW, then his 3 wood and Driver. i found that he was hitting everything consistently from 3 wood dowm. By consistency, i mean progressive MPH for each iron and wood (1 inch extra usually add 2.5 mph, so if your 7 iron is 75 mph, your driver should register 95 mph). the only glaring exception was his driver (on the rombax) which at that time was a 460 cc head. specs wise (weight, flex, launch, spin) everything was right but the disturbing thing was the Smash Factor which was about 15% less than the rest of the clubs tested. (there is also a reduction in Smash Factor as the club gets shorter, meaning if you achieve 150% for driver, you may only get 140% for the 7 iron and 115% for the PW)

Good thing he had his old 983E in the bag and we tested that as well. Immediately his Smash Factor went back to the same factor as the rest of the set. I explained to him that the likely problem was the bigger head must have made his subconscious think he's got to rip it harder thus resulting in a lower smash factor and shorter distance. he did not have to do a thing and i am sure he is still happily ripping fairways with his old trusty driver.

i hope i have provided some insights to how MOI can work for and against you.

DGman
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jurongtiger
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:23 pm

INteresting.....hmmm
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:07 pm

nowadays not easy to find anything lesser than 460cc already
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dunlookback
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:57 pm

Thanx DGman for clearing the air. So small heads do reaally work for some people i guess
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:20 pm

weesern wrote:
nowadays not easy to find anything lesser than 460cc already

TM R9 420

titu
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:28 am

titleist 909D3

I15

Cannot think of any already...
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dunlookback
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:45 am

nike latest VR 380
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:12 am

I had same issue, went back to an 11-degree steelhead driver 44 inch, works like charm, carries 200m (and zero roll), got back my drive, all the 460cc drivers in cold-storage now. But I never had problems with the newer 3 wood or hybrids, just the bigger-head and longer drivers. So I always thought it was loft, length of club etc. Now I think DG has a different answer which also makes sense - MOI around shaft vs MOI wrt CG of clubhead. The worst thing I find about long and big-headed drivers - bad hits are still water or OB - maybe that's a confidence issue and not MOI or other issues.
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:33 am

you have to consider all the other clubs in your bag.

A lot of golfers like to buy the same brand (and model) throughout and unknowingly, they are almost assured of a MOI matched set.

switching back and forth between clubs of different shape and size do require some golfers to re-train their motor memory.

like i always say, if you like fine food, music (particularly classically), enjoy the arts or collect antiques, watch out...you are likely to like a blade putter, thin top line irons and dislike square or funny shape woods.

DGman
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:54 am

u did a survey on this??
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dunlookback
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:28 am

For reading pleasure on this topic

http://www.golfnewsupdate.com/ShowArticle.aspx?CategoryID=2&ArticleID=300
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:06 pm

weesern wrote:
u did a survey on this??

now why would i do a survey.....we are just a clubfitting outfit in Bukit Merah.....
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:22 pm

how do you come up with the relationship between fine food and blade putter users....
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DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:31 pm

its human psychology and the relationship between visual and feel preference.

thats why you can start with car manufacturers, there are buyers who prefer streamline, those who prefer power (raw and refine)...the list goes on.

i am not going to dwell further on this subject here but for those who wants to know more, do drop in for a chat.

DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise!!! SMALL head Driver beats Big Heads. Anyone has the reason behind this?   Today at 11:56 am

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