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 Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?

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shaugn
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PostSubject: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:32 pm

Been doing a little reading up in an attempt to try to improve my golf swing and gain some much needed distance. Came across a couple informative websites and the word 'lag' kept turning up.

Excellent reading here:

http://www.golflagtips.com/what-is-clubhead-lag-and-how-can-it-improve-your-golf/

http://www.deeprough.com/index.php/2007/12/07/create-lag-golf-swing/

GolfLagTips talks alot about feel and pressure points, with plenty of references to TGM. Very informative and well explained in everyday language:

"No matter how different or unorthodox, all effective swings have one position in common: At impact, the skilled golfer’s leading wrist is effectively flat or bowed facing the target, the trailing wrist is bent backwards, the shaft is stressed and presses hard on the right forefinger."

The other article on deeprough talks more about proper weight shifting techniqes to create lag:

"To create lag the secret is to make sure that the weight is being properly shifted FORWARD just before the club reaches its position at the top of the backswing. As this occurs a recentering of the center of the body will occur and the hands will automatically LAG behind the body."

What's your take? Question
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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:46 pm

"Here is something I think most will find extremely disappointing. The better the ball striker you will meet, the less they give a conscious damn about anything like backswing plane, where/how they set the club on the backswing, or how they do not allow their hands to uncock. They are on auto-pilot, and even when they’re not, they’re too busy hitting pure after pure that they don’t even care about all this crap that bad golfers and worse instructors are obsessed with."

Interesting comment. As it is from the internet, it must be true!!! I totally agree with this statement. Just hit the ball la...
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:59 pm

G_Man wrote:
"Here is something I think most will find extremely disappointing. The better the ball striker you will meet, the less they give a conscious damn about anything like backswing plane, where/how they set the club on the backswing, or how they do not allow their hands to uncock. They are on auto-pilot, and even when they’re not, they’re too busy hitting pure after pure that they don’t even care about all this crap that bad golfers and worse instructors are obsessed with."

Interesting comment. As it is from the internet, it must be true!!! I totally agree with this statement. Just hit the ball la...

Have to disagree with that. Most good players started out crap as well and through reading, watching, having lessons learnt how to do all the stuff that is required. Don't know too many that started out pure. "Just hit the ball la" is what most do and is why they cant hit it. You gotta start off by getting all the technical info, once it is learnt it can then be forgotten about and then can "just hit the ball la"
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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:07 pm

Heh RSC, dont get me wrong... If they wont get lessons then they really wont get anything. But to make it a exercise of extreme complication is way too much overkill too. The game of golf is a swing. how many people are driving range junkies but never go to a course? and some dont even hit ball in between lessons.

I am an advocate of coaching. But I also believe that there is no 1 method to hit the ball. And to make it more complicated by have this-and-that mechanics to worry about make things worse. The idea of the game is to get a ball into a hole with the least effort possible.

Get a coach, get educateed, but never get so tight on the mechanics that you address the ball with fear and keep second guessing yourself.. thinking about how your swing will run in the micro secs on the first tee box will not get a better swing at that point. thus, Just hit the ball la.
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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:20 pm

newbie trying to understand....does the wrist position effectively determines the lag? Trying to feel the lag or weight shift is not the cause but rather than the effect? The wrist position is the key, no matter how it is achieved, as long as it is achieved at impact (some methods of course easier to attain the position than others)?

Reason is now i am concentrating on one objective (the wrist position) during the swing and dont really obsessed over the other factors.

Funny thing is while trying to get a flat left wrist, found out that my backswing does not make it easy (swing too far back so during the impact, i tend to block, causing me to close the face more to compensate) so i change my back swing achieve the flat wrist.

also need to find out why i keep lifting my left foot. maybe i just cant twist that much.

Not sure if i am doing it correctly. Me too poor to get proper lessons Crying or Very sad
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:22 pm

The technical stuff you do on the range. When u get to 1st tee, all you should be doing is visualising ball flight and target, no or maybe 1 swing thought is all u should have.
Tronos made an excellent point about realising he had to change his backswing to achieve the flat left wrist. Most want to achieve desired positions in their impact but errors in grip, set up, turn etc make their attempts futile. A good pro can show you the hows and whys, a bad one will just tell you the obvious. In that case better off reading a magazine and trying on your own
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:20 pm

Lag can simply be defined as a trailing condition.
If the hands are in front of the clubhead, then the clubhead is said to lag the hands.
In the golf swing, there are 3 types of lag.

1) Pivot Lag
2) Power Source Lag
3) Clubhead Lag

The "buggywhip" pattern that people are so mesmerized with by Sergio is actually Power Source Lag.
Hogan had a secret for that, its called a cupped left wrist.
For most people, reaching that level of lag will produce weak shots out to the right.
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:30 pm

If u dun mind, could u explain the 3 types of lag??
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:55 pm

Pivot lag occurs when the pivot fires off from the ground up during the transition from
Backswing to Downswing.

Feet, knees, hips, right shoulder, right elbow then left wrist.
Just as though you were going to throw a frisbee.

Power Source Lag occurs when the release of a power source is delayed as late as possible.

There are 4 power sources

1. Bending and straightening of the right elbow
2. Cocking and uncocking of the left wrist
3. Turning and rolling of the left forearm
4. The left arm up and down the chest

Clubhead lag - as discussed earlier.

Knowing all these is one thing, doing then yet another.
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:13 pm

RSS we call it store up. Similar to power source lag. As TGM says, its one thing to know, another thing to be able to do it
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:22 pm

Yessir Paul, as the saying goes, "a rose by any other name is still a rose"!

Wee Sern, to elaborate a little on power source lag.

There is a 5 stage process on power delivery.

Accumulate power as you make your backswing
Load is how much power you need, obviously for different shots - chip shots less load than full swing.
Store - most people can't wait to attack the ball - hence left wrist and right elbow angles become wide
Deliver the stored power to the release point - there won't be much to deliver if you dumped all your accumulated power
Release - yes power needs to be released, contrary to popular belief.
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JL
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:15 pm

I do agree with RSC... I been playing golf for 10 plus years.
N except for tournaments that I can focus on target and play.. I have never been on the course playing a social game without my swing technical thoughts in my head. I think alot is trial and error.. and Finding the right feel.
Like wat feel best and more comfortable when playing on the course.
As we all know, u can hit like a Professional on the range but down on the golf course... its another thing.. No offence but I think technical part do plays a big part~
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:33 pm

The Golfing Machine wrote:
Yessir Paul, as the saying goes, "a rose by any other name is still a rose"!

Wee Sern, to elaborate a little on power source lag.

There is a 5 stage process on power delivery.

Accumulate power as you make your backswing
Load is how much power you need, obviously for different shots - chip shots less load than full swing.
Store - most people can't wait to attack the ball - hence left wrist and right elbow angles become wide
Deliver the stored power to the release point - there won't be much to deliver if you dumped all your accumulated power
Release - yes power needs to be released, contrary to popular belief.

am i right to say that for the storing of energy, most ppl will expend the energy too early due of casting of the club...

how long should we keep the hinge on the left wrists?? after the hands pass the waist level?? or just before impact?

releasing will then be having a flat left wrist upon impact?
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JL
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:37 pm

I think Co Ordination and sequence plays a big part too...=)
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:43 pm

very true... able to execute all but not able put them altogether is useless...
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JL
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:51 pm

yup.. exactly wat I am struggling right now.. lol.. So what I do is Hit n pray =P
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:52 pm

Rod Pampling - plenty of Store up (Lag), Compression, Flat Left Wrist
Result - Solid, penetrating, straight, powerful shots



Joe Average - No Store up (Lag), Scooping, Bent Left Wrist and arm, club face wide open, body too far back, no weight shift
Result - Topped, duffed, sliced shots, high ball flight, no power

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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:55 pm

JL wrote:
I think Co Ordination and sequence plays a big part too...=)

Absolutely correct...
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:59 pm

The Golfing Machine wrote:
JL wrote:
I think Co Ordination and sequence plays a big part too...=)

Absolutely correct...

And wrist angles, body angles, wrist and forearm strength, the list goes on. ha ha lol!
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:01 pm

Right_sided_coach wrote:
The Golfing Machine wrote:
JL wrote:
I think Co Ordination and sequence plays a big part too...=)

Absolutely correct...

And wrist angles, body angles, wrist and forearm strength, the list goes on. ha ha lol!

But by the time people realise that, they are already hooked on the game!
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JL
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:03 pm

yups yups.. N have so many injuries that I know who is the best Physio in town.. heh
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:04 pm

weesern wrote:
The Golfing Machine wrote:
Yessir Paul, as the saying goes, "a rose by any other name is still a rose"!

Wee Sern, to elaborate a little on power source lag.

There is a 5 stage process on power delivery.

Accumulate power as you make your backswing
Load is how much power you need, obviously for different shots - chip shots less load than full swing.
Store - most people can't wait to attack the ball - hence left wrist and right elbow angles become wide
Deliver the stored power to the release point - there won't be much to deliver if you dumped all your accumulated power
Release - yes power needs to be released, contrary to popular belief.

am i right to say that for the storing of energy, most ppl will expend the energy too early due of casting of the club...

how long should we keep the hinge on the left wrists?? after the hands pass the waist level?? or just before impact?

releasing will then be having a flat left wrist upon impact?

The pivot is the transport mechanism that transports the loaded power sources to the release point.
Proper use of the pivot is key to a maximum delayed release.
The flat left wrist then is a result of the proper use of the pivot.
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:05 pm

JL wrote:
yups yups.. N have so many injuries that I know who is the best Physio in town.. heh

You may need to go to an osteopath as well.
Some of your joints may be out of alignment which will cause the nerves to be trapped.
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:07 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qldOSqYdS6I&feature=related

Big time Accumulator Lag...almost makes Sergio look like he is casting...
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shaugn
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PostSubject: Re: Creating lag in your golf swing... whats the deal?   Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:41 pm

Thanks guys for the informative posts. Especially to RSC and TGM for sharing their expertise. Very Happy

I've been trying new things out at the range recently, in particular the different golf swings aka 'hitting' and 'swinging' as mentioned by GolfLagTips.com and am quite happy to say that changing from hitting to swinging has resulted in some gains to my distance. While it's true that its a little harder to control and prevent wayward shots, i think that'll eventually come with time and practice.
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