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 How to improve from bogeys to par

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Yarra
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 10:59 am

ChrisD wrote:
Been playing Bogey all the time and finding it hard to par... How to improve to par.

Short game is the most importance. But psychology plays an important role, too. Patience and practice...
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eden
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 12:14 pm

I pulled this from one of the article/ research:

The number of GIRs affect overall score the most.
Score-# of GIR
71 - 12
75 - 10
79 - 8
81 - 7
85 - 5
89 - 3
91 - 2
95 - 0
99 - 0

If you are on GIR more often then every first putt is a birdie chance and 2nd putt for par.
If you are mostly scrambling then every first putt is to save par and 2nd putt is bogey.
Everything else will have to improve if you focus on improving your GIR > fairway %, average putts > sand saves etc.
Cavaet: No major penalties/ blow

To get more pars, you have to be in a position for birdie chance and 2nd putt for pars.
If you are mostly trying to save par, without giving yourself a chance for birdie then difficult to drop from bogey to par.

My coach only recently advised me to be more aggressive especially on par 5s and long par 4s instead of laying up (conservative) if I want lower scores.
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 1:29 pm

eden wrote:
I pulled this from one of the article/ research:

The number of GIRs affect overall score the most.
Score-# of GIR
71 - 12
75 - 10
79 - 8
81 - 7
85 - 5
89 - 3
91 - 2
95 - 0
99 - 0

If you are on GIR more often then every first putt is a birdie chance and 2nd putt for par.
If you are mostly scrambling then every first putt is to save par and 2nd putt is bogey.
Everything else will have to improve if you focus on improving your GIR > fairway %, average putts > sand saves etc.
Cavaet: No major penalties/ blow

To get more pars, you have to be in a position for birdie chance and 2nd putt for pars.
If you are mostly trying to save par, without giving yourself a chance for birdie then difficult to drop from bogey to par.

My coach only recently advised me to be more aggressive especially on par 5s and long par 4s instead of laying up (conservative) if I want lower scores.


That really true very good article .....

if u know ur putting not working ... most player also try 100 % power for every iron ... next time u go to green if u got 145 meter exept of taking 9-iron take 75 % 8 iron i tell u u will hit more green n make more par ... after that u got to work on putting n short game
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ChrisD
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 1:51 pm

I usually get 10 GIRs for a good day but still can't see my score go down....
putting is my forte usally 2 putts for average 18 holes.


Last edited by ChrisD on Wed May 05, 2010 1:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 1:52 pm

Cyp, 145m i have to use my 6 iro at 90%. Diff league altogether hahahaha.....
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blee67
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:04 pm

[quote="eden"]I pulled this from one of the article/ research:

The number of GIRs affect overall score the most.
Score-# of GIR
71 - 12
75 - 10
79 - 8
81 - 7
85 - 5
89 - 3
91 - 2
95 - 0
99 - 0

quote]

Hi Eden,

Thanks for the stats.. So very true...
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ChrisD
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:05 pm

pushslice wrote:
Cyp, 145m i have to use my 6 iro at 90%. Diff league altogether hahahaha.....

Ya also different in "score" too.
hahahaha eden take note
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eiji
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:09 pm

ChrisD, since ur putting is good, u should start tracking stats of your round and then analyze your score cards after 5 rounds and see where you are dropping shots

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eden
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:10 pm

ChrisD wrote:
I usually get 10 GIRs but still can't see my score go down....
putting is my forte usally 2 putts for average 18 holes.

Hi ChrisD,
Just my 2 cents, f you can get 10GIR then you must be penalised on the remainding 8 holes.
2 putts average is good but are you missing out on pars for those holes that you missed (GIR) because of chipping/ bunker/ pitching or you tend to blow one or two holes?

If you miss the remaining 8 greens then it could be fairway% (harzard?)???
assuming you double boggey the balance 8 holes and putting not an issue meaning it took you extra 2 shots to get onto the green (pitching, chipping, bunker)?

I am planning to go on the course with my coach and have him access my strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes it is course management/ strategy..knowing where to miss, when to be aggressive.

my 2 cents.
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poresia
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:11 pm

My problem is quite different. My GIRs is always very low at 2-4. I always recover by pitching and on a good day, I can have total putts as low as 26 bcos every other pitch is a GIMME or easy tap in par. Usually my total putts averages around 30-32.

The other factor which will affects GIRs is number of fairway hits. GIRs shd increase if % of Fairway Hits increase. If not, then ironplay is the culprit as most mid handicappers shd hv average of 2 putts.

For long par 4s, i will try to lay up so last shot to green is at comfortable 100-110m which is a full swing with my pitching wedge, my favourite distance.
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:13 pm

eden wrote:

To get more pars, you have to be in a position for birdie chance and 2nd putt for pars.
If you are mostly trying to save par, without giving yourself a chance for birdie then difficult to drop from bogey to par.

This is so true !!! My par are usually a mis-birdie. When i struggle to save par, it is usually a bogey.

eden wrote:
My coach only recently advised me to be more aggressive especially on par 5s and long par 4s instead of laying up (conservative) if I want lower scores.

Do you mean try to 2 on for par 5? To me, using a 3 or 5 wood to hit into the green that looks tiny from 200m away is a high risk game.
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:16 pm

golf is game with many facets, physical, mental and strategy. physical(shot making, etc), mental(confidence,swing thoughts,determination) and strategy(course management). its one of the reason why its so addictive to me...cause being able to hit the golf ball well doesn't mean playing to a low score. and like a game of chess, there's many possibilities after each move.

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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:19 pm

I would assume that the choice of club on the first shot also makes alot of difference...
I see alot of people practicing their drivers at the range and they go left, right & center, so now imagine that if your on the course and ur driver dispersion is horrible... doesn't that make it harder to recover and make PAR unless one's scrambling is good of course

I seldom practice with my driver... am always practicing with my 3W either off the deck or tee'd up... If you can hit a 3W nicely there should be no reason where u cannot hit a driver where the ball is tee'd even higher
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eden
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:25 pm

Salty Dog wrote:
eden wrote:
My coach only recently advised me to be more aggressive especially on par 5s and long par 4s instead of laying up (conservative) if I want lower scores.

Do you mean try to 2 on for par 5? To me, using a 3 or 5 wood to hit into the green that looks tiny from 200m away is a high risk game.

Yeah, try for 2 ON for par 5!
My sequence is like this for par 5s.
Driver > 5iron or hybrid >>>>>>>>

The logic for going 2 ON with a 3wood is that a bad shot with the wood would still give u a chance for 3 ON - 2 PUTTS.

If I use irons or hybrid to layup to 100m, a bad 2nd shot would require me to use a iron or hybrid for my 3rd shot (either layup or GIR) which would now be almost certainly 4 ON - 2 PUTTS = BOGEY.

PS. we are talking about reducing from Bogey to Par so assuming can hit all clubs in bag.


Last edited by eden on Wed May 05, 2010 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:26 pm

eden wrote:

To get more pars, you have to be in a position for birdie chance and 2nd putt for pars.
If you are mostly trying to save par, without giving yourself a chance for birdie then difficult to drop from bogey to par.

My coach only recently advised me to be more aggressive especially on par 5s and long par 4s instead of laying up (conservative) if I want lower scores.

Hi Eden, You must be a single hdcp player for your coach to say that to you. Beer

I however have to take the opposite approach which I learnt the hard way after 6 frustrating months of golf. I still remembered how I first broke 120 about 2 months back. Instead of trying very hard for GIR, I always lay up to under 50 yds to the green. Unless it is a very short par 4 with little harzards around the green. If I try too hard or force too hard, I end up coming back with triple bogey or even dbl par. With this conservative approach, it has help me to consistenly go under 120 and even one time, came back with 102 (this was achieved when playing with Pushslice). I told my coach about this new method of course management and he totally supports it. I guess its playing to my strengths (Or lack thereof)

I guess I will have to improve more and then only start attacking the green.
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darenlim
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:27 pm

If you are hitting 10 GIR (this is what I average normally too), you should be able to come back with a sub 80 round almost every time.
If you are unable to do so, its probably due to your short game.
DO you have statistics of your own game? if you do not and if you are serious in lowering your score CONSISTENTLY, you should chart your games out.

When I was in the national squad for about 8 years, we do this constantly.
I am kinda lazy now but I still chart them out once in a while.
Normally handicaps ranging from 8-15 are weaker in either their Iron play or short game.
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:29 pm

poresia wrote:
My problem is quite different. My GIRs is always very low at 2-4. I always recover by pitching and on a good day, I can have total putts as low as 26 bcos every other pitch is a GIMME or easy tap in par. Usually my total putts averages around 30-32.

The other factor which will affects GIRs is number of fairway hits. GIRs shd increase if % of Fairway Hits increase. If not, then ironplay is the culprit as most mid handicappers shd hv average of 2 putts.

For long par 4s, i will try to lay up so last shot to green is at comfortable 100-110m which is a full swing with my pitching wedge, my favourite distance.

bro poresia, your "problem" is what I aspire in golf.
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:38 pm

pushslice wrote:
poresia wrote:
My problem is quite different. My GIRs is always very low at 2-4. I always recover by pitching and on a good day, I can have total putts as low as 26 bcos every other pitch is a GIMME or easy tap in par. Usually my total putts averages around 30-32.

The other factor which will affects GIRs is number of fairway hits. GIRs shd increase if % of Fairway Hits increase. If not, then ironplay is the culprit as most mid handicappers shd hv average of 2 putts.

For long par 4s, i will try to lay up so last shot to green is at comfortable 100-110m which is a full swing with my pitching wedge, my favourite distance.

bro poresia, your "problem" is what I aspire in golf.

bro..remember ?..1 chip 1 put....haha !!
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:40 pm

i think rather then trying to convert bogey to par, one should instead try to set a realistic score to hit..... trying breaking 90 or 85 or 80

cos if i want to convert bogey to par, i play even par liao...... Rolling Eyes


there are many variables, depending on players' abilities.......
1) good long game, trying to work on short game
2) good short game, working on long game
3) sound course management, hitting good % shots

everyone of us has good n bad attritributes, it also differs from one individual to another.....so it may work for some but not for others, alas, the player is the master of his "destiny"

if i was playing competitively, the nite before the game, my battleplan is already forming in my head....from hole 1-18, what clubs to use, where i want my ball to be, where is my bailout area for mine up and down, where not to go (penalties is the worst enemy).......

jmho
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eden
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:44 pm

Winston wrote:
Hi Eden, You must be a single hdcp player for your coach to say that to you. Beer

I however have to take the opposite approach which I learnt the hard way after 6 frustrating months of golf. I still remembered how I first broke 120 about 2 months back. Instead of trying very hard for GIR, I always lay up to under 50 yds to the green. Unless it is a very short par 4 with little harzards around the green. If I try too hard or force too hard, I end up coming back with triple bogey or even dbl par. With this conservative approach, it has help me to consistenly go under 120 and even one time, came back with 102 (this was achieved when playing with Pushslice). I told my coach about this new method of course management and he totally supports it. I guess its playing to my strengths (Or lack thereof)

I guess I will have to improve more and then only start attacking the green.

I am not a single HCP but trying to be, that is why i have been going to a coach for last few months.
Professional coaching is good as it addresses individual strengths/ weaknesses and with it our golf objectives.

This is my opinion:
having a coach that works with you on the range is great for your swing.
having a coach that goes down to the practice green works wonder for your short game.
having a coach that goes onto the course with you will help you with your scoring and that is usually how we measure our objectives...to play a certain score.

my coach was able to advice me on my game/ techniques (example, what type of chip to play, how open the club should be etc) based on condition and what should be my expected score based on what he saw.

It is because of the gap of MY actual score and HIS expected score, which is why we want to work on playing style/ strategy etc

Work with your coach to work out a plan for you to achieve your obectives (be it swing, techniques or course mgmt) and you should see great improvements/ results.


Last edited by eden on Wed May 05, 2010 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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darenlim
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:47 pm

OooO BRETT is good Smile Have not seen him in awhile, you are in good hands bro!
So when do we expect you to be a single handicapper? We can have a game soon!
Would love to hear about your progress Smile
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eden
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 2:52 pm

darenlim wrote:
OooO BRETT is good Smile Have not seen him in awhile, you are in good hands bro!
So when do we expect you to be a single handicapper? We can have a game soon!
Would love to hear about your progress Smile

BRETT not BRAD... Very Happy
I guess you are talking about the other BRAD cos BRETT just arrived in Singapore ard Feb!
Brett was previously coaching in Jim McLean's academy in florida.

I am hoping to reach my target by year end if possible.

If after all the coaching, I am still not single then i am just hopeless Sleep
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 3:07 pm

New Blood is good, good to have some coaches here that follows up on their students.
Glad to know that you have aiming for that at the end of the year.
Tian wants to be a single handicapper too and Jon is aiming to be a scratch handicapper.
Im aiming to maintain mine Smile

Good Luck Smile Practise Hard! That is the only way you can achieve your goals.
There is no easy way out.
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 4:48 pm

Man ... I've only hit 8 GIRs once, last week at Palm (played my best ever round on Putra + IOI) from the white tees. Most of the time not even close. My immediate target is to make sure I make GIR from inside 100m (no real excuse to miss at that range) with a medium term target of more GIR from 130m and in. Hopefully that will translate into more Pars.

I started tracking my shots when I got the Golfshot app on the iphone. The statistics in the game made me realise that my weaknesses were not exactly where I thought they were. I always thought that putting was costing me a lot of strokes, but analysis of the statistics is showing me that my GIR percentage is really bad (30%) and my scrambling is even worse (11.4% - which is combination of chips not close enough and missing 3-4 foot putts). My putts per GIR were actually not that bad (slightly more than 2 - i.e. occasional 3 putt).

That means for me to make more pars, have to work on iron play and putts inside 5 feet. Also, I have about 25% double bogey or worse, analysing where I went wrong there helps me to focus on what I need to practice for damage limitation, i.e if I miss the GIR but am somewhere around the green but not in major trouble, should try to hole out within 3 strokes, 2 if lucky, 4 or more is probably means major work on short game or putting.

I guess the main lesson for me was until I started charting more details in my scorecards, I could have been working on the wrong things, which while they might improve my game overall, might not have translated into an improved score in the short to medium term.
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darenlim
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PostSubject: Re: How to improve from bogeys to par   Wed May 05, 2010 5:03 pm

Derek wrote:
Man ... I've only hit 8 GIRs once, last week at Palm (played my best ever round on Putra + IOI) from the white tees. Most of the time not even close. My immediate target is to make sure I make GIR from inside 100m (no real excuse to miss at that range) with a medium term target of more GIR from 130m and in. Hopefully that will translate into more Pars.

I started tracking my shots when I got the Golfshot app on the iphone. The statistics in the game made me realise that my weaknesses were not exactly where I thought they were. I always thought that putting was costing me a lot of strokes, but analysis of the statistics is showing me that my GIR percentage is really bad (30%) and my scrambling is even worse (11.4% - which is combination of chips not close enough and missing 3-4 foot putts). My putts per GIR were actually not that bad (slightly more than 2 - i.e. occasional 3 putt).

That means for me to make more pars, have to work on iron play and putts inside 5 feet. Also, I have about 25% double bogey or worse, analysing where I went wrong there helps me to focus on what I need to practice for damage limitation, i.e if I miss the GIR but am somewhere around the green but not in major trouble, should try to hole out within 3 strokes, 2 if lucky, 4 or more is probably means major work on short game or putting.

I guess the main lesson for me was until I started charting more details in my scorecards, I could have been working on the wrong things, which while they might improve my game overall, might not have translated into an improved score in the short to medium term.

Well said Smile
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