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 Why not take lessons?

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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Why not take lessons?   Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:30 pm

I thought I start this thread out of curiosity.
Most of us (if applicable) know that we need to go see a pro who knows what is going on to rectify swing flaws, yet we don't. I can think of a couple of reasons why we don't. It would be fantastic if these could be added to.

1) Perceived cost vs value added.
2) Having to play like a beginner (no disrespect here) before the changes can take effect.
3) Having the grip changed.
4) Having the backswing changed.
5) Hitting one club shorter with the "new and improved swing"
6) Having to swing easy when your natural tendency is to "grip it and rip it"
7) The most intelligent thing the pro can say is "Keep your head down."
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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:43 pm

Losing more money after lessons....
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daveaha
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:50 pm

Time constraint...
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:53 pm

daveaha wrote:
Time constraint...

What if the lesson could be delivered in the privacy of your study room via PC - anytime, would time constraint still be a problem?
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jurongtiger
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:45 am

One reason might be that most golfer's do not trust that lessons can greatly improve and correct flaws. Dont try, Dont know. I tried once with 2 buddies and chose a cheap package. In the end we didnt learn much as the uncle wasnt too good with analysis and instructions. Always talking abt feel.....

But that did not deter me.

I tried again and this time at a good golf academy at the local club. I am very happy with the improvements I have made even after 2 lessons.

I think the bottomline and conclusion to this change is because I have a better understanding of my own weaknesses and flaws to begin with now (I just picked up golf when I went to the first coach abt 2 yrs ago).

Lastly, lessons, however solid the program is, wldnt be much help unless you learn, understand and practise and practise!
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:17 am

The Golfing Machine wrote:
daveaha wrote:
Time constraint...

What if the lesson could be delivered in the privacy of your study room via PC - anytime, would time constraint still be a problem?

How effective would a golf lesson be in the privacy of one's room via a PC? Sports coaching typically requires face-to-face work. I would say that "virtual coaching" is likely going to be ineffective.
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:35 am

I would say the degree of effectiveness would vary depending on personality types.
Every action is the result of a concept.
If one believes that hitting up on drives produces the
best launch angle, then that Is what one would do.

Most are clueless about their own flaws and the corrections.
Such students would be best off in a dark room with a
beer and some proper information. Afterall..."Knowledge is Power."
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:01 am

But wouldn't the coach need to see how the ball flies. I've seen people with pretty good swings but somehow catch the ball badly. It's the last few miliseconds before and the first few miliseconds after contact with the ball where the mishit lies. Often, this can't be picked up by the naked eye but can be seen in the resulting shot.

Don't get me wrong. I think reviewing a person's swing via video does have its benefits and certainly, a lot of useful tips can be imparted to help the player improve his/her swing. However, when it comes to really fine-tuning the player's game, I believe that actual face-to-face/hands-on coaching is a must.

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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:21 am

Technospaz,

Like I said, some would benefit more than others.
Your millisecond observation is very spot on.
The most important thing to me is what happens
when the club is parallel to the ground on the downswing
to my finish.

No doubt hands on coaching would help greatly, not many
can afford to pay a top coach $500 per week indefinitely.

On aesthetically pleasing swings...
I am never one for nice looking swings - bonus but
practically useless if the golfer over accelerates. Its like
having a Ferrari with a Datsun engine! Smile
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watermyforrest
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:38 am

The Golfing Machine wrote:

What if the lesson could be delivered in the privacy of your study room via PC - anytime, would time constraint still be a problem?

It helps but the lesson would also be more meaningful if it can provide some drills that can also be done in the study room. Imagine, if someone can't even find time to take lessons, am pretty sure no time to go to range as well No
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:48 am

That's a great point.
An ideal program would have one drill per module designed
in such a manner that it addresses 3-4 things at a go.

Just like learning to play the guitar - individual chords must
be learned first before a song can be taught.

If students mess up a simple drill without a ball, then
chances of striping a ball on course is very small.
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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:51 am

My thoughts on this are rather simple.
More often the case, Pros will try to ractify one issue and spend the whole alloted hour getting me to practice the fix. While this seems to be the norm, I think it is a great waste of my money to practice while I am meant to be having a lesson.

While this approach may not work for most. This is my approach to learning
1. What I have tried to do is to have no firm spacing between lessons so that I have ample time to get as much practice time as I can before the next lesson.
2. Spend some time and jot down some quick notes in your own words.
3. Make it a point to train only 1 thing at a time. Then train all the components together only in the last 15mins I want to be at the range.
4. Keep 1 mental thought only. 1 thought that can be repeated 1000 times; is better then 1000 thoughts that can only be repeated once.
5. Distance is not important; it really cant be, b'cos we have a whole heap of clubs to chose from.

Admittedly, as a Driving Range Rat (DRR), distance isnt my problem. The short game is. And thats a whole different bowl of pain! That will need a whole different approach to learning.
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:57 am

I've had my swing analyzed through video before and I found it useful. I see the benefits in coaching through this method especially for those who are busy or otherwise unable to get to a range. That said, it would help to supplement the coaching with hands-on lessons so I guess it would need to be a mix of the 2 for me.

But, as I mentioned, don't get me wrong. There are benefits in video coaching. Heck, if there can be telemedicine, why not telecoaching too? Smile

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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:00 am

Quick thoughts.
1. Cant find time to take lessons, but has time to play golf?
The time spent on the lesson will/should have benefits for all susequent games. Thus it would be logical that the lesson should outweight the game in terms of importance.
If no time for game or for lessons, then good. No need for golf at all...
2. Drills: Every magazine has tips on how to improve. I am sure a google will reveal a lot of drills as well. Getting an Impact bag was a great investment for me.

Video coaching is great because half the time, what we believe we are doing in our minds is very different compared to what is acutally happening when we as swinging. As most cameras now have video as well, get a friend to record your swing... A program called CSwing is what you will need to check it out in slow-mo...
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:31 am

Good program is useless without a high speed camera... tried LG viewty, 120fps, able to see more than what a normal cam can capture. cannot really see the shaft though. So go for the highest fps u can find/afford.
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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:07 am

I tried it on an old Canon Ixus. worked out well...
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watermyforrest
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:13 am

G_Man wrote:
Quick thoughts.
1. Cant find time to take lessons, but has time to play golf?
The time spent on the lesson will/should have benefits for all susequent games. Thus it would be logical that the lesson should outweight the game in terms of importance.
If no time for game or for lessons, then good. No need for golf at all...

No offense bro, but nothing beats playing in the green... you can have a perfect swing on the matt but once it is in the rough, sand and slopes it might not work... not to mention short game... and most people would rather squeeze time to "play" golf rather tahn "practice" golf... again no hard feeling, this is just IMHO

G_Man wrote:
2. Drills: Every magazine has tips on how to improve. I am sure a google will reveal a lot of drills as well. Getting an Impact bag was a great investment for me.

That's the thing bro... for weekend hackers, they need to be advised which drill... so many of them, so little time. I am glad you found impact bag is working out for you bounce

G_Man wrote:

Video coaching is great because half the time, what we believe we are doing in our minds is very different compared to what is acutally happening when we as swinging. As most cameras now have video as well, get a friend to record your swing... A program called CSwing is what you will need to check it out in slow-mo...

I saw that Casio camera can take up to 1000 shots per second, for those who wants to check out their swing in details and need a digicam should consider this... Bro G_man can advise the CSwing part?
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benhogan
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:48 am

Why not?

1) No money
2) Lots of injuries
3) Have different priorities in my life
4) Proven to myself that I could play in the 70s with a lousy swing.( the pros did help me in my game ) Of course I play in the 90s now. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:01 am

Heh watermyforrest,
I totally agree with you.
Want to learn about golf, take a few lessons then go on the course if possible. You will never learn as much on the mats as on the course. Golf is like sex. Practice all you want on your own... The real thing is still different.

Drills?
Well, again like sex... everything deserves a go... to certain moral extents. for those that only get to practice on the weekend, welcome to marriage. <--- again, referring to golf hor!
But seriously, take a bucket and throw golf balls into it from a distance. It increases ball sense, and helps putting <-- I feel....

Camera and CSwing.
Well.... Never thought of using it for ... Nevermind.

Camera, FPS isnt important here, because you are going to play it in slow mo. Picture quality isnt really that important because you are looking out for large movements and limbs, not finger nails and teeth...

CSwing at www.cswing.com
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:03 am

Oh, I have tried the Casio Camera at TP Range.
Quite nice to understand each part of my swing process.

So tempted to buy such camera.
QUite useful only if you know what's good or bad, right or wrong, in your swing.
If not, changing your swing blindly.
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:18 am

G_Man wrote:

Golf is like sex. Practice all you want on your own... The real thing is still different.

Drills?
Well, again like sex... everything deserves a go... to certain moral extents. for those that only get to practice on the weekend, welcome to marriage.

ROFL

lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:17 pm

G_Man wrote:


Camera, FPS isnt important here, because you are going to play it in slow mo. Picture quality isnt really that important because you are looking out for large movements and limbs, not finger nails and teeth...

CSwing at www.cswing.com

Actually high speed cam shows the swing better, in the case of my friend, we can see the unhinging of wrists too early in the downswing and on impact, the right wrist is in a cupped position. We are unable to see this coz normal cam no matter how slow u run it, it is affected by the number of frames it can capture.

unless u are still referring to XXX and not golf.... I cannot comment on that...
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:21 pm

weesern wrote:
Good program is useless without a high speed camera... tried LG viewty, 120fps, able to see more than what a normal cam can capture. cannot really see the shaft though. So go for the highest fps u can find/afford.


Not true, 30 fps camera is more than enough with good software, of course if you have no software then you need a good camera....
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:48 pm

Why not take lesssons???

As for myself, I am glad to be playing during my infant golf stage with some pretty decent golfers and such, manage to pick a few tips from them. At least for me, the primary reason is whether am I satisfied with the level of golf I am playing now..? If yes, then at least for me, I don see a reason to go for formal training. But if otherwise, then yes...one just cant improve without proper coaching.

Disclaimer: I am just a very berry ave golfer...ie can play good enough so as to not slow down the flight

...Just me ' duval'.
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:08 pm

The flip side of "Why not take lessons" is to ask then "Why take lessons?"
Common responses I hear are
1. I am not consistent
2. I always slice my driver
3. I can hit my short irons ok but long irons can not
4. I don't hit it long enough
5. My golf game sux

Interesting how nobody ever wants a putting or chipping lesson. Thats what amazes me!!
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