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 Why not take lessons?

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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:07 am

Two kinds:
1st: If you cant do it my way, you are doing it wrong.
2nd: Lets see what I have to work with and take it from there.
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shotah
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:14 am

I ever remember one pro that falls in the 2nd category. THe perfect swing in the world is one which the indivdual will be able to do it repeatedly without much effort.
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watermyforrest
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:17 am

shotah wrote:
I ever remember one pro that falls in the 2nd category. THe perfect swing in the world is one which the indivdual will be able to do it repeatedly without much effort.

Amen...
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:18 am

shotah wrote:
I ever remember one pro that falls in the 2nd category. THe perfect swing in the world is one which the indivdual will be able to do it repeatedly without much effort.

Hear hear!
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:10 am

Yes, you can top it out of a divot, but the ball is not
going to travel very far.

Learning is subjective. What may be easy for one
could be tough for another. Its like maths, some are
brilliant, others not so.

The perfect swing is not just one that can be repeated
easily. It must be mechanically sound as well.

I don't think any of the guys with red colored nicknames
have actually recommended a certain way to swing,
I.E look like Tiger. What has been shared so far are
proper dynamics.

Physical laws are laws. You may disagree with the law of
gravity for example, but they will still work regardless.
Thus it is with golf laws.
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Ssquirrel
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:02 pm

Who wrote the golf laws? Razz tongue
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:25 pm

Perhaps I should have put "".
"Golf laws" are simply the laws of physics and geometry applied to
the golf swing.

Once you have an element of force, you have physics
involved.

The golf swing is basically circles and straight lines,
so geometry is involved.
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shotah
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:31 pm

The Golfing Machine wrote:
Yes, you can top it out of a divot, but the ball is not
going to travel very far.

Learning is subjective. What may be easy for one
could be tough for another. Its like maths, some are
brilliant, others not so.

The perfect swing is not just one that can be repeated
easily. It must be mechanically sound as well.

I don't think any of the guys with red colored nicknames
have actually recommended a certain way to swing,
I.E look like Tiger. What has been shared so far are
proper dynamics.

Physical laws are laws. You may disagree with the law of
gravity for example, but they will still work regardless.
Thus it is with golf laws.

Well, let us put it this way. Taking myself as an example. I used to flung my maths when i was in school, so bad that my mum decide to get me a tuition teacher. The first one didn't work out cos he says I got to do this and got to do that. Like what you have mention, the proper dynamics, then i will know what to do, but it still didn't work.

Then i changed another, he sort of study the way i do my work and from there, he tried to make a me interested in the subject and seriously, getting me interested in something is not easy. I think getting me to be interested in something is harder than getting charles barkley to swing properly, but eventually, i been scoring in the subject.

So my point is there is no one way to hit a ball, and in your instance, a ball in a divot. Lets say you are playing in awana genting and the fairways are super wet and soggy. But at your divot, you cannot get a free drop and you know its wet, will you try to force it out by compressing it, i dunno about you but i would rather clip the ball like how i hit on a fairway bunker. Cannot put it on, so what, take another shot, walking away with a confirm bogey is better that risking it for par.

I am also a beginner and learning the game everyday and i appreciate you giving us tips on and off, but you got to remember that not everyone may be as talented as you or tiger so sometimes its easier to look for the easier option rather than the pro option.

Just my 2 cents.
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:46 pm

Dear shotah

Thanks for your feedback bro.
I speak for everyone on this forum when I say that
the end goal of posting is sharing and hoping everyone
becomes better as a result.

On a forum we must ALL understand is that nuances in
meaning is very easily distorted.

My comment in relation to hitting out of a divot was to
address weesern's query about compression and not a
method of hitting out of a divot during play.

Now that you have raised your point, I will be very mindful
not to assume certain things and clarify as much as
possible - that is if you and the forum at large do
actually find what I am sharing to be helpful in one way or
another.

I also agree with you that getting one to enjoy the game
is of paramount importance. I speak for myself in that
I have only endeavored to share what I believe to be
scientifically corect procedures that can be verified with
empirical evidence. Never once have I tried to foist
my beliefs onto anyone.

When I taught individually on a per hour
basis previously, my goal was always max results and
min effort - that is to say we will get you where you need to
be YOUR WAY. Golf Your WAY that is, and not MY WAY.

I appreciate sometimes taking lessons can truly be an
exercise in frustration, but hey, that's what your buddies
are here for! Keep on asking questions - no question is
wrong.

You have a great attitude and an open mind - it is my
sincere belief that if you stick to the plan, you will do well.

May the course be with you.

TGM
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:02 pm

G_Man wrote:
Two kinds:
1st: If you cant do it my way, you are doing it wrong.
2nd: Lets see what I have to work with and take it from there.

My thoughts on the golf swing are there are so many ways to swing the club and there are many that work well as seen by players such as Furyk, Kenny Perry, Zac Johnson, Phil Mickelson, Vijay Singh etc. None look the same, and neither are their statistics. Some are short, some long, some accurate, some not, some rely on short game, some are mentally stronger, concentrate harder, practice longer, have good weeks and bad weeks. Some can only draw, some are limited to a fade. Some of us are thin, some short, some tall, some fast, some slow.
We all have 2 arms, 2 legs and a spine so even though our swings will look different due to our physical stature, why can't there be a bio mechanically correct way to swing, that produces the most accurate, longest and most consistent shots each time? A swing that can produce draws, fades, high and low shots!
We can send a man into outer space, however we do not have a simple model to make a golf ball fly properly.
The swing I teach is based around perfect impact. The swing is designed around being able to achieve that perfect impact in the simplest and most efficient way. Yes there are many variations on achieving this impact position but which way is the best way?
Why teach someone the hard way or allow them to try and get perfect impact form a position that is really difficult or bio mechanically not possible. That to me is stupidity. It makes more sense to use the model that I know can achieve the impact that everyone desires and guide the student to achieve as close to the model as possible.
To date there is only 1 RS player that has achieved this, but there are many that are not far away from it. The times they get close to the model, they play great, the weeks they don't play so well, they have diverted away from the model.
Having a model, gives me a reference point so I can see what has fallen out of place, fix that and good impact is possible again.
I do not say that you must swing my way when you come for a lesson. I ask what is your current ball flight and what shots do you have problems with, what is your bad shot (slice. hook etc) Once I know what you hate about your swing I then tell you what is causing you to hit that bad shot and what you would need to do to not hit that bad shot anymore.
Most see the cause of the bad shot once shown on video and then I compare them to a model and away we go. I can not fix your slice if you are not willing to change your grip and setup. You can not swing from the inside if your body is tilted the wrong way. Simple fact of the matter. Try all you like, hit 1000 balls a week. it will never change unless you change the body shape. Laws of physics!!
All RS swingers have alot of similarities in their swings, the most obvious is the set up and the body shape. These I believe are the most important as it makes the other stuff easier. Yes Furyk does not have these things in his swing, therefore he is very limited in what he can do. His ball flight is a fade, he hits it short, he relies on good wedge play and putting which makes him an unbelievable player. Does that mean it is gonna work for you and me, probably not. You would not teach anyone to swing like Furyk. No one is that talented to correct all the bad positions he has in his swing an less than 2 seconds.
So in summary, I would have to say that I fall into category 1: If you cant do it my way, you are doing it wrong.. I will never tell a student to swing slower, or their timing is out, that is rubbish. It is simply their swing is wrong and they need to slow it down to correct the fault before impact. If you learn RSS and you dont improve or can't fix your slice, simple fact is that you are not close enough to the model. Make the changes or continue to slice. I have had students that after 8 lessons still look the same as lesson 1 and they wonder why they still cant hit it....they havent made the change suggested or havent practiced the drills prescribed. Something as simple as changing grip and set up, still hasnt been changed yet they expect their swing to change. Why? That is is beyond me, mayb it doesnt feel right or comfortable. If it feels comfortable it is probably wrong in my opinion. If you are not willing to change your swing then you should not take lessons. I do not give quick fixes. There isnt such a thing. I would rather you save your money and spend it on beer instead.. lol!
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shotah
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:05 pm

Thanks for your prompt reply TGM, pardon me for my ignorance cos i thought you were teaching weesern how to hit out of the divot as you mention that the "only way" is to hit down on the floor. Alot of beginners plus me do not have the luxury of practising hitting on divot but since i playing at warren this weekend, maybe I will give it a try. Smile

ANyway, thanks for the advice that you have posted in other threads, it has help me in my understanding of golf alot.....
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shotah
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:10 pm

This question is for RSS, maybe you would like to tell me who are the pros that are using RSS so that i can pay attention the next time i see them on TV. I am a person who believe in statistics and only when its confirm, tia tio tai guarantee, then I would want to give it a try but othe than that, I will just stick to my normal old school swing.
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:23 pm

shotah wrote:
This question is for RSS, maybe you would like to tell me who are the pros that are using RSS so that i can pay attention the next time i see them on TV. I am a person who believe in statistics and only when its confirm, tia tio tai guarantee, then I would want to give it a try but othe than that, I will just stick to my normal old school swing.

Here is a short list of current and former students of RSS. There are many more
Rodney Pampling (multiple wins on US Tour and Australian and European Tour)
Peter Senior (too many wins to mention)
Peter Lonard (now with Leadbetter and strugggling at 163 on Fed Ex Cup)
Gavin Coles (multiple wins on Nationwide Tour)
Jan Stephenson (3 time major champion)
Quincy Quek (was Sings #1 amateur, just turned pro)
Nathan Green (this weeks winner of Canadian Open)
Paul Gow (winner on Nationwide and Aust Tour)
Daniel Vansic (winner on Euro Tour)
Peter Baker (winner 2 weeks ago on Challenge Tour)
Rebecca Flood (amateur) just qualified for Womens British Open
Gavin Flint (former)
Andre Stolz (winner US Tour)
Australian Tour players
Anthony Painter
Stuart Bouvier
Brad Lamb
Andrew Bonhome
Martin Doyle
Euan Walters

Just off the top of my head. Many more as well as an impressive list of youngsters coming thru amateur ranks
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shotah
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:46 pm

Wow... thanks man, will pay attention to the list above the next time.
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:01 pm

No worries shotah, glad we can help.
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:08 pm

Right_sided_coach wrote:
shotah wrote:
This question is for RSS, maybe you would like to tell me who are the pros that are using RSS so that i can pay attention the next time i see them on TV. I am a person who believe in statistics and only when its confirm, tia tio tai guarantee, then I would want to give it a try but othe than that, I will just stick to my normal old school swing.

Here is a short list of current and former students of RSS. There are many more
Rodney Pampling (multiple wins on US Tour and Australian and European Tour)
Peter Senior (too many wins to mention)
Peter Lonard (now with Leadbetter and strugggling at 163 on Fed Ex Cup)
Gavin Coles (multiple wins on Nationwide Tour)
Jan Stephenson (3 time major champion)
Quincy Quek (was Sings #1 amateur, just turned pro)
Nathan Green (this weeks winner of Canadian Open)
Paul Gow (winner on Nationwide and Aust Tour)
Daniel Vansic (winner on Euro Tour)
Peter Baker (winner 2 weeks ago on Challenge Tour)
Rebecca Flood (amateur) just qualified for Womens British Open
Gavin Flint (former)
Andre Stolz (winner US Tour)
Australian Tour players
Anthony Painter
Stuart Bouvier
Brad Lamb
Andrew Bonhome
Martin Doyle
Euan Walters

Just off the top of my head. Many more as well as an impressive list of youngsters coming thru amateur ranks


With all due respect Paulie I dont think you can blame Bedwetter for Lonards spiral, his list of injuries is well known, as well as the fact that like the guy or not... (and I dont) but he has taken a couple of golfers to the number 1 spot....
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:44 pm

Fair point shorty. The thing is they were all good players to start with. Bedwetter just polished them up a bit. Lonard was a club pro, who was struggling as a pro am player. RSS got him to the top 30 players in the world. In 97 he won so many times and he couldnt putt. His swing has changed for the worse and now he cant bust it.
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:47 pm

Right_sided_coach wrote:
Fair point shorty. The thing is they were all good players to start with. Bedwetter just polished them up a bit. Lonard was a club pro, who was struggling as a pro am player. RSS got him to the top 30 players in the world. In 97 he won so many times and he couldnt putt. His swing has changed for the worse and now he cant bust it.

I can relate........ pale
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:12 pm

Right_sided_coach wrote:
shotah wrote:
This question is for RSS, maybe you would like to tell me who are the pros that are using RSS so that i can pay attention the next time i see them on TV. I am a person who believe in statistics and only when its confirm, tia tio tai guarantee, then I would want to give it a try but othe than that, I will just stick to my normal old school swing.

Here is a short list of current and former students of RSS. There are many more
Rodney Pampling (multiple wins on US Tour and Australian and European Tour)
Peter Senior (too many wins to mention)
Peter Lonard (now with Leadbetter and strugggling at 163 on Fed Ex Cup)
Gavin Coles (multiple wins on Nationwide Tour)
Jan Stephenson (3 time major champion)
Quincy Quek (was Sings #1 amateur, just turned pro)
Nathan Green (this weeks winner of Canadian Open)
Paul Gow (winner on Nationwide and Aust Tour)
Daniel Vansic (winner on Euro Tour)
Peter Baker (winner 2 weeks ago on Challenge Tour)
Rebecca Flood (amateur) just qualified for Womens British Open
Gavin Flint (former)
Andre Stolz (winner US Tour)
Australian Tour players
Anthony Painter
Stuart Bouvier
Brad Lamb
Andrew Bonhome
Martin Doyle
Euan Walters

Just off the top of my head. Many more as well as an impressive list of youngsters coming thru amateur ranks

Forgot to add Scott Barr on the list. He shot -5 today in Brunei Open
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shotah
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:29 pm

Yah, RSS, what happen to QQ at the Asian Tour event, was hitting so well on the first day but hit 1 over for the next 3 days.
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:32 pm

Haha but Flinty (former) shot 64.... lol! teasing ya mate......
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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:07 pm

Just a quick question:
What kind of swing does Tiger have???
Or Anthony Kim
Nathan Green???


wondering.....
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:14 pm

shotah wrote:
Yah, RSS, what happen to QQ at the Asian Tour event, was hitting so well on the first day but hit 1 over for the next 3 days.

Not sure what happened! I think there is a confidence and pressure factor playing with the big boys for money. I think he needs some time to find his feet and then results will be better. He shot -1 taday at Brunei so hopefully he can finish the week off well.
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:19 pm

shorthitter wrote:
Haha but Flinty (former) shot 64.... lol! teasing ya mate......

Flinty is a great guy and very talented player. He trained with RSS for a while a few years ago. I have his RSS on my computer. I will post it if anyone wants to see it. Hope he can have a win this week.
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:34 pm

He is a great guy no doubt.. one of the genuine guys on tour.. I seriously trying to get caddy job....
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Today at 3:55 pm

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