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 Why not take lessons?

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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:55 pm

Wha... so many post... on why not to take lessons???
I guess its an issue close to hearts of golfers

But to clarify some misconceptions; if there are any.
I have no doubt that there are benefits to coaching. I for one, have had refresher lessons over the last few months as well. While I had lessons, the purpose of these lessons were purely for fault fixing. And they have paid off heaps. Dropping 20 strokes off the game scores in the last 9 months.

In my earlier post on the subject, I firmly believe that the failing of people learning the game is a lack of practice. But more importantly the inability to practice correctly. More often then not, we try to make changes to fix issues that we don't really understand the cause of in the first place. But we will diligently practice the new found "self-corrected" swings. For myself at least, till the point I was dead on with my irons... But died on my drives. In trying to fix one issue, I had created other issues. Issues I felt I needed a Pro to fix. I was right.

Now here comes the issues I faced getting a coach. While I believe that there should be a right way to swing, I am also mindful that what works for me doesn't always work for someone else. And the notion that there is only one way to swing means there is no room for discussion. And I am as unsuited for the coach as the coach is unsuited to me. Invalidating the intention of this forum in the first place.

Additionally, while I am playing relatively well now. I still wouldn't mind playing like Jim Furyk, short, a fade biased ball flight but still a beautiful ball striker.
Most people in this forum are really open minded people. And the forum is an avenue for us to get away from the drag of the corporate world and dream of golf. In this thread alone, there has been more controversy then informational help. There is no one way to do one thing, there are many many ways. If you believe this to be false, then the assumption is that it can only be done 1 way. Again, end of discussion, death of the forum. So if this is the case then.... arh well.

But, if there are multiple ways to deal with golf, surely there are multiple swings that can deal with the golf ball. If so, woopie, forum is alive.

For the guys that are just starting out with the game:

Bros, Sistas, its a great game. The only game you play with yourself. The only game your faults are your own and nothing around you can be blamed for it. If the root caused you to mishit your ball, well you shouldn't have hit the ball there then right?

Creativity around the greens is more often then not rewarded. It might not pay off in the beginning, but keep at it. That one flop shot that dies just next to the pin makes it worth it! It is only thru building a swing you are confident in that the game gets more fun. And following this, building an arsenal of sexy shots that makes it real fun.

Keep practicing, don't just wait for the every Thursday 8pm coaching session you share with 7 other people to practice. Take notes when you are being coached, then work at it over the week or two before the next lesson. Then jio the kaki in this forum for a game. Some of them play well, some of us just go for the fun and the TCSS. If you cant play well, join us still, tee up the ball on every shot for all we care.. As long as you have fun, we will too... And if you don't, we still don't care; because we didn't cause it, and we can't fix it for you.

You can hit as much as you want at the ranges. But until they allow you to lug the range mat with you around the course, course time is the only way to get experience and know where you are actually lacking.

But whatever happens, HAVE FUN!!! If not why do it?

Anyway, so whats the cost??? To take lessons???


Last edited by G_Man on Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:05 pm; edited 4 times in total
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:23 pm

I think you have to wait for Paul and Shorthitter to
chime in on this one...Smile
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siaw8
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:30 pm

Why not take lessons?

Simple... 2 main reasons only...

Firstly, lessons are very expensive... about $100 per lesson for an hour

Secondly, too many pian jia pros around..

In short, the concern that i am not getting value for money has prevented me from taking lessons.... Frankly speaking, if i know the pro can improve my golf, i would not hesitate to take up lessons... sadly speaking, i have encountered too many pian jia pros... like what people say... once bitten twice shy...

Nevertheless, if i have the money, i would definitely go to Tendy to further my golf... i really like his holistic approach... he does not believe that there is only one way to play golf and that there is no right or swing swing... instead, his philosophy is that everyone is different as some are tall, some are fat, some has long arms and etc, thus his teaching approach is to modify his student's swing based on the his/her physical characteristic... In addition to having the right swing, he believes in having the right attitutue, pre game preparation and most importantly being flexible on the course... sounds familar right:)
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Ssquirrel
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:01 pm

To be fair; I think one try to find out what the pro/coach style of teaching and if it agrees with your own style of learning. Talk to the pro, or ask around. If the style matches, then sign up for the lessons..

Some people like to learn a "textbook type swing" or position golf, this position address, another for backswing, impact etc. Then if the coach doesn't do so, but instead does minor tweaks, that student might feel that the coach is no good or "pian jia"???

Like one of my friend said his coach is great because he took videos, and my friend could see his swing and learn faster; the other guy felt that the coach was just wasting time looking at video???

I believe the majority of golf teaching pros have the students interest at heart and want to see their students improve and enjoy the game; it's just that their style of teaching might not jive with the students mode of learning...Different strokes for different folks.. (and golfers like to stroke hahaha)

Peace.. cheers
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:58 pm

This is my opinion only......

While I respect RSC's opinon and passion, and TGM is a good friend, and in all honesty if I had to set up my own academy I would choose Justin as my partner over most others...

I am from number 2) of the options mentioned previously...

Reason being, well many reasons really but the main ones are recently I had a 68 year old man come for his beginner package...

As much as I would like he cannot and will not be able to get into the same positons as Scott Barr for example.... and honestly, he really doesn't care if he does..

Another student, (hope he is not embarrassed if reading) lost both his legs below the knee in accident, he also cannot get into the perfect impact position.

Student 1 just wants to knock the ball around with his mates... easy done, he gets the ball off the ground can chip and putt.. happy.

Student 2 is very serious, wants to be good golfer, but as I said physically not able to achive perfect impact, so I have him putting ball back in stance and hardly moving weight at all. Not pretty but he hits the ball damn well, not as well as he wants, but he is only starting..

My point is not everyone wants to be number 1. Some just want ball to go up and forward, and in my opinion not all can get into perfect impact position.. I had 1 bloke had deformed right arm.. it could not under any circumstances get into "textbook" postion but he is now 14 handicap cos he gets the ball around.

I dont disagree with Paul if someone wants to be number 1 then yes certain positons must be achived, but some just want to play golf. To turn those people away because they dont meet your model is not fair to golf.

I wanted to comment on Siaw8 post but best I bite my tounge...now lol!
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redbull
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:04 pm

shorthitter wrote:
Right_sided_coach wrote:
Fair point shorty. The thing is they were all good players to start with. Bedwetter just polished them up a bit. Lonard was a club pro, who was struggling as a pro am player. RSS got him to the top 30 players in the world. In 97 he won so many times and he couldnt putt. His swing has changed for the worse and now he cant bust it.

I can relate........ pale

may be you should take a lesson from RSC? Shocked
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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:05 pm

some ppl can learn fast, some can even be self taught, coaching will accelerate the learning process and cut down of time wastage learning/practicing on wrong techniques or worst, cultivating wrong habits. Having said that, some ppl are just hopeless in sports and need lots of coaching......its not easy if one has never played sports and suddenly try to pick up one of the most complicated sport there is (it is afterall trying to swing at one of the fastest speed trying to hit deadly accurate at the smallest ball in sports)

sometimes its good to ask them to pick up other sports like tennis, badminton just to get into the swing of things. If one has never hit a forehand in tennis, how to ask a person to swing with lag.


Last edited by tronos on Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:06 pm

redbull wrote:
shorthitter wrote:
Right_sided_coach wrote:
Fair point shorty. The thing is they were all good players to start with. Bedwetter just polished them up a bit. Lonard was a club pro, who was struggling as a pro am player. RSS got him to the top 30 players in the world. In 97 he won so many times and he couldnt putt. His swing has changed for the worse and now he cant bust it.

I can relate........ pale

may be you should take a lesson from RSC? Shocked

Don't let shorthitter fool you...the kiwi is a playa....
He won some Myrtle Beach Classic in North or South Carolina before..
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:08 pm

tronos wrote:
some ppl can learn fast, some can even be self taught, coaching will accelerate the learning process and cut down of time wastage learning/practicing on wrong techniques or worst, cultivating wrong habits. Having said that, some ppl are just hopeless in sports and need lots of coaching......its not easy if one has never played sports and suddenly try to pick up one of the most complicated sport there is (it is afterall trying to swing at one of the fastest speed trying to hit deadly accurate at the smallest ball in sports)

sometimes its good to ask them to pick up other sports like tennis, badminton just to get into the swing of things. If one has never hit a forehand in tennis, how to ask a person to swing with lag.

Agreed...but from past experience I will say this...
Sometimes, the most intelligent people (Harvard, Yale etc etc) have the worst golf games ever.

Not that good golfers are dumb, its just that they put more trust in the coach and have a "do first and understand later" approach.
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:11 pm

The Golfing Machine wrote:
redbull wrote:
shorthitter wrote:
Right_sided_coach wrote:
Fair point shorty. The thing is they were all good players to start with. Bedwetter just polished them up a bit. Lonard was a club pro, who was struggling as a pro am player. RSS got him to the top 30 players in the world. In 97 he won so many times and he couldnt putt. His swing has changed for the worse and now he cant bust it.

I can relate........ pale

may be you should take a lesson from RSC? Shocked

Don't let shorthitter fool you...the kiwi is a playa....
He won some Myrtle Beach Classic in North or South Carolina before..

Another lifetime my friend... the guys I used to beat are now top 100.... I struggle on SPGA circut.... lol!
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:12 pm

What's gone is the self belief thats all...
Seriously...
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redbull
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:16 pm

The Golfing Machine wrote:
redbull wrote:
shorthitter wrote:
Right_sided_coach wrote:
Fair point shorty. The thing is they were all good players to start with. Bedwetter just polished them up a bit. Lonard was a club pro, who was struggling as a pro am player. RSS got him to the top 30 players in the world. In 97 he won so many times and he couldnt putt. His swing has changed for the worse and now he cant bust it.

I can relate........ pale

may be you should take a lesson from RSC? Shocked

Don't let shorthitter fool you...the kiwi is a playa....
He won some Myrtle Beach Classic in North or South Carolina before..

May be RSC can take him to be a top 60 players in the world?

From what I have read, RSS seems like got dragon got tiger, damn power lidat. Rolling Eyes
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:17 pm

redbull wrote:
shorthitter wrote:
Right_sided_coach wrote:
Fair point shorty. The thing is they were all good players to start with. Bedwetter just polished them up a bit. Lonard was a club pro, who was struggling as a pro am player. RSS got him to the top 30 players in the world. In 97 he won so many times and he couldnt putt. His swing has changed for the worse and now he cant bust it.

I can relate........ pale

may be you should take a lesson from RSC? Shocked

Not as silly as it sounds, I thought seriously about it....
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redbull
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:22 pm

shorthitter wrote:
redbull wrote:
shorthitter wrote:
Right_sided_coach wrote:
Fair point shorty. The thing is they were all good players to start with. Bedwetter just polished them up a bit. Lonard was a club pro, who was struggling as a pro am player. RSS got him to the top 30 players in the world. In 97 he won so many times and he couldnt putt. His swing has changed for the worse and now he cant bust it.

I can relate........ pale

may be you should take a lesson from RSC? Shocked

Not as silly as it sounds, I thought seriously about it....

So what is your answer to "Why not take lessons?"? tongue
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:26 pm

For me personally??? cos my playing career is over, I can not get to the level I once was...

I can still play even par or below if I put my mind to it...

my family is more important than getting up at 5am to put necessery effort in to play well....

And because I have been there and done that......
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:39 pm

What shorthitter says I totally agree with. Sure, all golfers have different goals and unfortunately some have physical limitations, disabilites etc which is a different situation. I would also adapt to get a result. One junior I coach has a fused bone in his right arm so I can not get him to grip the club how I would like him to, hence I have had to adapt to give him a swing that will suits his grip.
As I mentioned, I always ask what the students problems are and what shot they want to be able to hit and then work towards achieving their goal. It almost always ends in the golfer learning RSS as I know it will allow them to achieve what they all ask for, that is straight shots, more distance and more consistent. Nobody ever comes asking just to be average. Most still never achieve the impact position they desire, but it is all about getting them closer to that position, more often.
I identify their swing fault, then find what is causing that and start by fixing the cause, I never try to fix things mid swing or put band aids on them just so they can get a half decent result. If a student comes to me just for a quick fix or tip, I tell them they have come to the wrong place. If they want to improve, I give it to them straight, whether it is you need 5, 10, 20 or 100 lessons, I tell them up front. Majority see that it makes sense and off we go. All my posts are directed at serious golfers, I also teach raw beginners and I am definitely approaching them in a different way, that is to give them some basic fundamentals, get them hitting it forward, hopefully not shanking it into me, some rules and etiquette and having some fun. Beginners do not even know what RSS is. They are just happy to be swinging and I am giving them an interest in the game that they will go on with. If they can't hit the ball and find it too difficult then they probably will not enjoy golf and not continue on with it. That is not fair to golf.
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:17 am

Both very wise instructors indeed...golfers on this forum in good hands!
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redbull
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:27 am

The Golfing Machine wrote:
Both very wise instructors indeed...golfers on this forum in good hands!

if you MUST choose, which one will it be??

Right sided or left sided (or is it any-sided?)?

because seems like these 2 hands are different leh
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:35 am

redbull...they are not talking about hands here.
The two different patterns produce a different look here and for ease of definition, I guess the creators named them such.

For me, distance is not an issue, so it would be the RSS.
I AM NOT saying that RSS guys are short hitters, but RSS is definitely a better and more controlled pattern if you will.

I am more concerned about things like curvature, trajectory etc rather than pure distance.
Hitting the golf ball properly with compression is more important to me than just belting it out there.
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redbull
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:18 am

The Golfing Machine wrote:
redbull...they are not talking about hands here.
The two different patterns produce a different look here and for ease of definition, I guess the creators named them such.

For me, distance is not an issue, so it would be the RSS.
I AM NOT saying that RSS guys are short hitters, but RSS is definitely a better and more controlled pattern if you will.

I am more concerned about things like curvature, trajectory etc rather than pure distance.
Hitting the golf ball properly with compression is more important to me than just belting it out there.

i said 2 hands, was referring to your "in good hands" remark Very Happy

one hand is RSC, another hand is shorthitter..

So, you are saying that RSC is better than shorthitter right?

hmmmmm.....

















(just kidding, you have been a gentleman thus far...respect!)
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:28 am

redbull wrote:
The Golfing Machine wrote:
redbull...they are not talking about hands here.
The two different patterns produce a different look here and for ease of definition, I guess the creators named them such.

For me, distance is not an issue, so it would be the RSS.
I AM NOT saying that RSS guys are short hitters, but RSS is definitely a better and more controlled pattern if you will.

I am more concerned about things like curvature, trajectory etc rather than pure distance.
Hitting the golf ball properly with compression is more important to me than just belting it out there.

i said 2 hands, was referring to your "in good hands" remark Very Happy

one hand is RSC, another hand is shorthitter..

So, you are saying that RSC is better than shorthitter right?

hmmmmm.....

















(just kidding, you have been a gentleman thus far...respect!)


He's not saying that at all!!! He said for him personally, RSS is preferable as he is looking for control over distance.
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:51 pm

Why not take lessons??

Are we not taking lessons now?? in a different way.

I always believe in keeping one's swing and tweak whichever is the problem that hinder him from getting the result he wants, who know the whole swing is the problem... If i'm to look for a coach, I'll look for one that observe the different swings of different people and prescribe the remedy to each swing.

What is right and wat is wrong??? its just different perceptions
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:56 pm

weesern,

Your statement about perceptions is both right and incomplet.
Its like talking about hot and cold water. Perceptions yes, but then
physical laws dictate that water boils at 100 deg C.

Again, some of us may not like the law of gravity as that
means we can't flap our arms and fly...but we still comply
with that law...Smile
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:04 pm

yes, if its the law of nature, tats cold hard fact, other than tat... human dictate wats right or wrong
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The Golfing Machine
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PostSubject: Re: Why not take lessons?   Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:08 pm

To your statement, I will say this, the flight of the ball tells it all...Smile
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