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Titleist
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 8:36 am

We are going to churp in here...Smile

A combination of ball speed, launch and spin is what determines the best possible distance for each player. Spin is an important element in all shots. lower spin = straighter shots, great for long game. higher spin = greater stopping power good for short game.

The best example to keep this simple is to think about a hose watering a garden. When you turn on the hose and try to water the plants that are the furthest away you have to angle the hose a certain way to get the water to travel further, if you angle it to high or low it wont go as far. Now turn that tap down to half (this equals lower ball speed) and you will see you need you change the angle again (to be higher) but it will never go as far as when the tap was on full (higher ball speed). A golf needs to achieve an ideal trajectory to get the best results.

If you launch the ball high you don't need as much spin and vice versa. Its all player dependent on many variables. In the fitting that we do, the biggest variance we see in spin and launch is caused from poor angle of attack and path by players at impact.
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 8:44 am

Titleist wrote:
We are going to churp in here...Smile


ang moh... dun try too hard.. Razz



got very gd talk so far... was about to contribute but my knowledge is not worthy...
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 9:48 am

I actually experimented the spin effect.

Here is what I had done:

Simulate the spin effect on Ping Pong table. when I do top spin, the ball landed and the 'bounce' impact is much greater than back spin.

Conclusion: To get better distance specificially roll....ONE need to TOP-SPIN

Thanks...
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 10:33 am

I see a lot of post about technique and fitting, however no post on how shaft and club head design influence spin? Keep all else constant (same swing, same ball, same weather). lets Take the "each person is different" factor aside for a while.

Is there really no commonly accepted rule in equipment design relating to spin? E.g. higher moi produce longer distance on misshits? Things like that...
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nientsu
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 10:45 am

All I know is spin, or rather back spin is wat is needed to 'flight' the ball on an upward trajectory (Hope I sound logical).

Also, I may be seriously wrong in this. But correct me if I am wrong. You want more backspin in your wedges and irons cos preferbly you would want the ball to stop where it lands. However, you do not want spin on your drives cos you want the ball to roll.
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golf_snowman
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 10:54 am

Spin rate from driver to wedge is very different

Driver spin rate between 2000 to 3000 rpm while wedge spin rate can be somewhere above 10000 rpm

Spin rate from iron would be somewhere in between, i believe.
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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 11:18 am

Duval_S wrote:
I actually experimented the spin effect.

Here is what I had done:

Simulate the spin effect on Ping Pong table. when I do top spin, the ball landed and the 'bounce' impact is much greater than back spin.

Conclusion: To get better distance specificially roll....ONE need to TOP-SPIN

Thanks...

but u remember if u top spin the ping pong ball hard, it will land about middle to 3/4 way of the table, while if you chop too hard, the ball will float off the table (more carry)
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 11:23 am

Quote :
Quote :
tronos wrote:
Duval_S wrote:
I actually experimented the spin effect.

Here is what I had done:

Simulate the spin effect on Ping Pong table. when I do top spin, the ball landed and the 'bounce' impact is much greater than back spin.

Conclusion: To get better distance specificially roll....ONE need to TOP-SPIN

Thanks...

but u remember if u top spin the ping pong ball hard, it will land about middle to 3/4 way of the table, while if you chop too hard, the ball will float off the table (more carry)



DAMM!!!...now I know why my teeoff is such that I can still see the ball when it lands....

Thanks for the tip....I will give my teeoff a bit of back spin....eg. one idea I have is to have driver head in front of hands
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golf_snowman
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 2:25 pm

wow...no one talk about spin rate liao..

paging for Mr DGman...time to see your view about spin rate leh...keke
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darenlim
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 2:29 pm

I do not know anything about this
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golf_snowman
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 3:02 pm

darenlim wrote:
I do not know anything about this

i also dunno...that's why ask Mr DGman to enlighten us...keke
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S70B
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 3:38 pm

OK, after my fitting session @ Callaway today, here are some numbers that might enlighten a few:

FTiZ with Whiteboard 73X X
Clubhead Speed - 105.4mph
Ball Speed - 153.1mph
Efficiency - 96%
Launch Angle - 9*
Spin - 2958rpm
Carry - 248yds
Total Dist - 273yds


FT Tour with Blueboard 73X X
Clubhead Speed - 106.1mph
Ball Speed - 153.2mph
Efficiency - 97%
Launch Angle - 13.6*
Spin - 2009rpm
Carry - 263yds
Total - 287yds


If you look at both examples, you can see that with similar club and ball speeds, I carried 15yds more with total distance increase of 14yds.

With a higher launch angle and less spin, it does not necessarily mean more roll but it will def increase your overall dist.

BTW, that FT Tour is a gem. Its already on order.

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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 3:43 pm

what was the loft of the FTiZ? 9* launch is very low.
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S70B
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 3:50 pm

Both were 9/9.5* heads.
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 4:06 pm

do you think it is the head or the shaft that make the difference?
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S70B
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 4:14 pm

List of factors I learnt affecting all the characteristics:

Shaft weight
Shaft characteristics
Clubhead face angle and set up
Shaft flex

The head and shaft combo needs to be paired up well. eg will be the Blueboard 73X paired w the FT Tour worked out very well but the same shaft might not be ideal in a head that sits differently.

Also, shaft flex affected my shots the least. I had mebbe 200-300rpm diff trying out the S and the X shafts. The X just feels that it flexes better thats all.

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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 4:19 pm

Same swing same ball, how did the blueboard and ft tour combo produce much less spin? Dgman can help? s70b got confidential agreement with cally Smile

nice pics at carlsbad btw, did they tell you any different from what the guys at hot stix had suggested?
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S70B
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 4:47 pm

The FTiZ is a higher spinning head.

I tried the FT Tour with the Fubuki 63X X. It avg 2800-2900 rpms with a 14* LA. I always thought the Fubuki was lower spinning and lower launching but I was proved wrong.

Again, shaft weight affects results more than shaft flex.
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 4:54 pm

How does shaft weight affects result?
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Winston
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Tue May 25, 2010 7:08 pm

does "kick point" also affect spin rate?
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St. MIG
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Wed May 26, 2010 12:05 am

S70B wrote:
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned about the golf ball yet (or I might have missed it out).
EDIT: Sunny did mention it.

Read this full article from GD about golf balls.

Golf Digest Golf Ball Hot List 2010

If you want to do a fitting, it will be most accurate to hit balls u normally use in play. No point hitting the cheap stuff then goin to the course and finding out ur rpms increase quite abit in real life...or vice versa.

The fittings I go to ask me before hand what ball I normally play before I start wacking into the net. There is still a diff, no matter how small, between Pro V1 or V1X.

Also, there is a para in the article on why you should avoid the cheap stuff and play with those softer higher spinning ones which cost slightly more.

Also check this out at http://www.knetgolf.com/GolfBallSpin.aspx
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DGman
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Wed May 26, 2010 12:13 am

This is the first instalment of Spin..just bear with me as it has significant on all aspects of getting your drives and shots on the right track but first of all we need to understand where spin comes from.

When a golf club contacts the golf ball in the down swing, this results in an impact. Upon impact, the club head energy is transferred from the club head onto the ball. Basically, if you search for high-speed video on you-tube, you will see some amazing compression.

Now assuming a very proficient golfer swing a 10-degree driver pure at 0 degree angle of attack (AOA) and in the centre of the sweet spot, the ball should take off with a 10-degree launch angle. In reality, this does not happen….But why not?

That’s because the ball will always start to rotate and launch at an angle that’s greater than the loft of the club. The reason for this is the resistance in the air that causes the ball to rotate, gather momentum and spin. In golf terms this spin is measured in revolution per minute (rpm).

So what happens to the pure hit of the 10-degree driver at 0 degree AOA? It should result in a higher launch than the loft of the club head and its usually 3 to 4 degree higher. This will also explain why the ball travels further in dry or high altitude conditions because there is less air resistance.

Now picture this…if a golfer has a -2 degree AOA or + 2 degree AOA, what do we get? One can change the dynamic loft of the club head and the resulting shot may vary from 10 to 18 degrees launch angle.

A less proficient golfer can also hit the ball ½ inch towards the toe or heel. This will result in more spin including side-spin which will lead to fade or draw.

Finally if you hit a club thin or flat, you will also change the dynamic loft of the club and the quality of the impact. Even with the same swing speed you will experience different results.

For example, if you hit a driver thin, you will most likely get a short carry with more roll but you will not get any distance advantage. But when you hit a sand wedge thin, you may end up with double the intended distance with no backspin.

So now that we know what spin represents, I will try and explain how it works for different golfers and in different fitting situations.

Now heres’ a trivial for you…..

I am sure many people have gone to see pros compete. Now if we get a golf professional to hit a driver, 7 iron and a PW. Which resulting shot will have the highest maximum height?

DGman
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darenlim
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Wed May 26, 2010 12:18 am

Its the SW!
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Wed May 26, 2010 12:21 am

DGman wrote:


I am sure many people have gone to see pros compete. Now if we get a golf professional to hit a driver, 7 iron and a PW. Which resulting shot will have the highest maximum height?

DGman


answer correct got special?

Ideally all the max height should be the same for the 3 clubs.
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PostSubject: Re: lets talk Spin   Wed May 26, 2010 12:23 am

Trackman newsletter page 5: Same height.

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