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Gray
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PostSubject: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:18 am

Hi, I think my handicap index is wrongly calculated and would like to seek opinions of the bros here.

I usually play score of 110-115 at an 70.4 rating /131 slope course.

At a 69 rating course, my score is usually approx. 105.

Is a handicap index of 23.1 possible. seems abit too good no? Shld be higher correct? Is there a process to downgrade ur handicap?
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:39 am

Bro ....I too have the same feeling. I asked the association who maintain my HC, and they double check and confirm its such. Siao liao......!!!!

Initialy I suspected that they might based on how pro my equipment is, but then,,,,confirm later not the case coz mine is super forgiving type.

Guess, the best way is to really play bad and badder ....hhaahahah
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sandkie
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:41 am

Hi, Gray

Yes. It should be higher.

Some club (in Malaysia or Indo) will give a maximum handicap 24 because they know it is kind of minimum standard in Singapore..

May I know whether yours is USGA handicap index? Usually, they will display in the card which score they use to calculate your handicap. For first time hand-in, they will use the best out of 5 scores... I think subsequently, they will use average. I can be wrong in this, just my thought.
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:53 am

I think the scoring is correct. Reason being if you are high handicapper, certain holes you will get strokes automatically or in other words, cap at max of double bogey per hole. So thats why the score does not tally with what you have calculated.
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darenlim
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:56 am

They do not count anything higher than a double bogey.
You might have to recalculate again. Smile
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:18 am

i think rule of thumb or dummy's guide is that what ever u calculate as your differential or according to course handicap against your gross score... and then minus three... that should be your handicap index....



er... understand?
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skybobo
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:51 am

Hi bro, it should be correct cos its calculated by computer and not human Smile
If ur hcp is 23.1, your MAX score allowed on any hole is 8 assuming u are on USGA handicap system. This is because USGA build in something called ESC (Equitable Score Control)

Suppose u play 110 on a 70.4 rating and 131 slope course, your hcp differential (HD) should be (110 - 70.4) x 113/131 = 34.2

But your 110 could include blow holes of score 9, 10, 11 and so on. Hence if you apply the max of 8 to all holes, your AGS (Adjusted Gross Score) will be much lower....possibly even 100....and that will give you a HD of 100

At the end, they will take your average of 10 best scores and multiply by 0.96 to derive your handicap index. So the lesser score card u submit, the more unreliable your handicap and vice versa.
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Gray
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:11 am

Hi guys, thanks for the response. my HI is the USGA one.

I think my high score is cos of my blow holes which I also include in my score. If the computer doesnt accept the blow holes and cap at double bogey or max 8 strokes, then naturally my score will be very and low.

The issue I have is that when you play stroke play with frens, then handicap index is used mah. Like that, I will be disadvantaged.

I think the way to circumvent this is to submit total strokes instead of hole by hole into the system. after awhile, I think my handicap will natural go up.

Anyone tried before? or is there anyone whose handicap gone worse before? care to share?
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:15 am

I am also confused about handicapping system used here in Singapore

Example:

- I have a student who has +1 handicap but he has never actually shot under par.

- Also to pass handicap test, score needs to be 55 or better for 9 holes yet maximum handicap allowed is 24

- Don't submit a scorecard and your handicap comes down ( I think 1 stroke)

- I find most handicaps here are not reflective of the golfers abilities

- I always thought a handicap indicated your average score over par, not your best score?

Obviously the USGA system different to the system used in Australia. If I hear a golfer here is a 10 handicap, I am assuming he shoots 85-90, not 82 as his average score
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:30 am

Gray, everyone uses the same system. so i think everyone is on the same playing field. I assume you are talking about the keppel handicap index?

i OT abit first... u are now sounding like a buaya who is trying to beat the system!


ok. back to main topic. if u are maintaining your handicap index at keppel just as i do now, well... it is a system, what can we do? all the clubs in singapore are using the same system as i understand from my good buddies at MGK from last time. but for us, keppel members, 1 disadvantage that we have is that keppel is mentally a tough course to play in. tight course, alot of bushes, da, da, da... but the slope ratings and course ratings in my opinion is not very fair for calculating indexes... so if we play often at keppel and shoot what we shoot... even thou it is a crappy score, but our index will just come out low. period.

take me for example, i just checked and my handicap is 13.4 this month. but I have been shooting nothing but high 90s in keppel, ponderosa or tanah merah in the last few months... i did hit 101 in the last month in keppel as well...


so.... go figure...
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sandkie
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:41 am

From my understanding ESC varies depending on your handicap.
For Daren standard, it should limit up to double-bogey. But for us....

This should be the breakdown for ESC.
Course Handicap Maximum Score
0-9 Double Bogey
10-19 7
20-29 8
30-39 9
40 or more 10

I maintain my HCP at Palm Villa and so far quite representative. My best scores there are 88 but usually ranging from 88-95 and my HCP index is 19.1.
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:45 am

I think it still depends on the stroke index of the hole. Anyway, i dun see the point of this thread. Playing golf to buaya or playing golf to improve in the game?
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Gray
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:46 am

I agree with RSS. If my handicap is +10, then at a 72 rating/113 slope, I shld be shooting an average of 82.

so if I shoot abt 115 at a course rating of 70.4 and slope 131, my handicap shld be 38.5.

worst to worst, lets say they say that I shld be adjusted to my best score ever which is 105, then its shld be 29.8.

That to me is a fair calculation lah.
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:48 am

Then dun take a hcp or maintain 1. If you read RSS's hcp test, maximum score per 9 is 55. So if you should 115, then you fail your hcp test in the first place. Just go get a PC and play.
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Gray
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:51 am

duffader wrote:
I think it still depends on the stroke index of the hole. Anyway, i dun see the point of this thread. Playing golf to buaya or playing golf to improve in the game?

its about playing a competitive game. Having an accurate handicap will provide equity among players.

It also allows u to measure yourself when playing at different courses with different course rating and slope rating.

That is the whole point of having a standardised handicap index in the first place mah Very Happy

If no handicap then cannot play in the weekend and troublesome to play at other clubs
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:59 am

In the ideal world, yes. but the whole handicapp system is quite debatable as we have various requirements of score submission....some on quarterly basis, some once a year, some..donno........so realistically we just have to be pragmatic lor ie there is not equity......

guess the ROT is when we play with someone, we more or less can tell the std or the credibility of his/her HC.
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skybobo
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:17 pm

Hi Paul, maybe this article will explain a little bit better on why your student has a +1 handicap but has never really shot under par before.

USGA HANDICAP SYSTEM
Introduction
The SGA has adopted the USGA Handicap System. The handicap system makes the game of golf more enjoyable by enabling golfers of differing abilities to compete on an equitable basis. This article will attempt to explain to members, in as simple a manner as possible, the intricacies of the USGA Handicap System.

Definitions of the System
Before working on an example using the Handicap System, here are some definitions used in the System.

a. Equitable Score Control (ESC)
If you have been playing well and then ‘blow up’ a few holes with double-digit figures, the system will not accept those high scores for handicapping purposes. The maximum allowable score will be based on the following:


If your course handicap isYour maximum allowable score on ANY hole is
9 or less Double Bogey
10 - 197
20 - 298
30 - 369

Note: There is no limit on the number of holes on which a player’s score may be adjusted downward and that the maximum number on any hole is regardless of par.

b. Adjusted Gross Score (AGS)
This is what we get when we apply the ESC to the raw score you submitted. So, if you replace all the ‘blow-up’ holes with the maximum allowable scores according to the chart above, your new total will be the AGS for that round.

c. Course Rating (CR)
This is the playing difficulty of a course for scratch golfer under normal course and weather conditions. The CR can be found on the scorecard.

d.Slope Rating (SR)
Put simply, SR is the measurement of the relative difficulty of a course. It recognizes that some courses are more difficult than others and attempts to measure that difficulty. In the USGA system, the lowest SR is 55 and the highest is 155, and a golf course of standard playing difficulty has a SR of 113.

e. Handicap Differential (HD)
A HD is calculated for every scorecard submitted by a player. This takes into account the AGS for the round, the CR and SR for the course. The formula used in the USGA Handicap System is: HD=(AGS - CR) x 113/Slope Rating

f. Handicap Index (HI)
A HI is a measurement of a player’s potential ability on a course of standard playing difficulty expressed up to one decimal point. After converting all the submitted raw scores to HDs using the above formula, the system will select the appropriate number of HDs using the following table:


No of scorecards submittedNo of HDs used to calculate HI
5 to 6Lowest 1
7 to 8Lowest 2
9 to 10Lowest 3
11 to 12Lowest 4
13 to 14Lowest 5
15 to 16Lowest 6
17Lowest 7
18Lowest 8
19Lowest 9
20Lowest 10
The selected HDs are then averaged out, and multiplied by 0.96. The resulting number to one decimal place (no rounding up or down) is your Handicap Index.

g. Course Handicap (CH)
To convert a HI to a CH, refer to the Course Handicap Table, found usually on the first tee. This table uses the SR of the course to convert a HI to a CH. (Note: If the Slope Rating of the course is 113, your Handicap Index will be your Course Handicap rounded to the nearest whole number.)

Calculating a Handicap Index
For the purpose of this example, let us assume that you have returned a raw score of 104 for eighteen holes on a course with a Course Rating of 71 and a Slope Rating of 120. You also have scored two 10s, and a 9 during the round. From the Equitable Score Control chart, you will note that you are allowed to score a maximum of eight on any hole. So you will deduct 5 from your raw score, giving yourself an Adjusted Gross Score of 99.

From the formula provided, your Handicap Differential for this particular round of golf is: Handicap Differential = (99 – 71) x 113/120 = 26.366 = 26.3

Moving along, let us assume that you now have submitted 7 cards, and the calculated HDs for the submissions are 26.3, 22.5, 29.9, 25.5, 29.5, 29.8, and 24.3. From the HI chart you will need to select the two lowest Handicap Differentials to calculate your Handicap Index. These are 22.5 and 24.3. The average of the two is (22.5 24.3)/2 = 23.4 Multiply this by 0.96, and your Handicap Index is 22.4

Why this multiplication by 0.96? This is called a “Bonus for Excellence” and is the incentive that is built into the USGA Handicap System for players to improve their golf games. As your Handicap Index improves (gets lower), you have a slightly better chance of placing high or even winning a handicap event.

Implications for golfers with fewer submissions
You would have noted in the example given that the calculated Handicap Index is significantly lower than the simple average the seven Handicap Differentials. If you refer to the definition of a Handicap Index, you will note that the Handicap Index is a measure of the golfer’s potential ability.

As the calculation for the HI is done using the lowest scores, it is easy to see why the Handicap Index will be considerably lower than current capability for golfers with fewer submissions. The HI can be expected to stabilize upward with the submission of more cards, and more HDs are selected for the calculation.
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skybobo
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:30 pm

Gray wrote:
I agree with RSS. If my handicap is +10, then at a 72 rating/113 slope, I shld be shooting an average of 82.

so if I shoot abt 115 at a course rating of 70.4 and slope 131, my handicap shld be 38.5.

worst to worst, lets say they say that I shld be adjusted to my best score ever which is 105, then its shld be 29.8.

That to me is a fair calculation lah.
How many score cards have u submitted for hcp purposes to date?
Is there some cards where u score quite good and that's why hcp is around 23?
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skybobo
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:34 pm

duffader wrote:
Then dun take a hcp or maintain 1. If you read RSS's hcp test, maximum score per 9 is 55. So if you should 115, then you fail your hcp test in the first place. Just go get a PC and play.
If I'm not wrong, there is no more handicap test.
Its called CR aka courtesy round....

Diff clubs adopt diff practices
Some like NSRCC requires you to play 3 to 4 holes. If u can launch and know a bit of rules and safety....u pass. Ur hcp is then based on the 5 cards you submitted for CR

Some other clubs/socieites conduct CR as if its a test....and prob maintain the 55 for 9 holes kind of rule

At the end of the day, how true is your hcp depends on ur integrity
There are so many ways to beat around the system......

Even is system 36 stableford kind of format, its possible to buaya to a certain extent Smile
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:51 pm

Gray wrote:
duffader wrote:
I think it still depends on the stroke index of the hole. Anyway, i dun see the point of this thread. Playing golf to buaya or playing golf to improve in the game?


That is the whole point of having a standardised handicap index in the first place mah Very Happy


I think you just answered your own question. its to prevent people from declaring their fake score so that they can buaya others in a long run, thats why the limitation. And i also know your hcp index is reflecting your potential not your actual.
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sandkie
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:00 pm

I have a question on handicap numbering....

+2 and -2 handicap, which one is worse? I am always confused about the sign.
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skybobo
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:14 pm

taskie wrote:
I have a question on handicap numbering....

+2 and -2 handicap, which one is worse? I am always confused about the sign.
+ 2 is a better player
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Gray
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PostSubject: Re: Handicap Index calculation   Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:58 pm

duffader wrote:
Gray wrote:
duffader wrote:
I think it still depends on the stroke index of the hole. Anyway, i dun see the point of this thread. Playing golf to buaya or playing golf to improve in the game?


That is the whole point of having a standardised handicap index in the first place mah Very Happy


I think you just answered your own question. its to prevent people from declaring their fake score so that they can buaya others in a long run, thats why the limitation. And i also know your hcp index is reflecting your potential not your actual.

correct. which is why I am saying that my handicap index is neither my potential or reflective of my ability. changing handicap to buaya which was never my intention. I just want a handicap that is reflective of my abilities so that when i play at other courses i will know if I played well or played badly mah Wink .
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