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 How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.

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and68low
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:43 pm

ghoonk wrote:
Guys, what is the point of this topic again?

We are all 'seasoned beginners' as someone once said, and so true that none of us here are professional qualified to give instruction.

What is true, however is that as a SOCIAL forum with a common interest in GOLF, we take the time to share our own personal experiences, tips, tricks, what worked for us, what didn't work for us. At the end of the day, it is us to the reader to try it out and decide for him/herself if the tip works or not - what works for some of us may not work for others.

But if we all stop sharing, stop trying new things, stop learning, then there's no point in joining a forum, right?

Now, coming back to the topic of whether one would come across as arrogant is highly subjective -- some people have told me to my face that I am an arrogant person. I ask them why they think so, and this is what I usually hear:

1. you seem to have an answer for everything
2. you like to use cheem words that I don't understand

Now, that comes as a bit of a surprise to me, because my interpretation of arrogance is quite different. Having an answer doesn't make one arrogant, but mocking someone who doesn't have it does. As for my command of the language, there's not much I can do about that, is there? Replying all the time in Singlish doesn't make me more or less arrogant.

So, where does that leave us? Does it matter if someone thinks you're arrogant or not? If I'm replying with no ill will in my heart, should I even care that one person or a few people on a forum perceive me as being arrogant? Singapore is a small place, we all bump into each other on the course, in the shops, etc - we all have our own eyes and ears to decide for ourselves how a person really is. Some of the biggest a-holes I have met in online forums, turn out to be really nice guys with a great sense of humour and a genuine personality in real life, but they just 'sound' different online as they are not wholly familiar with forum etiquette and English is not their primary language. Not their fault, but people really are different in real life.
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I totally agree with what you have said about sharing, giving tips and experience. I have no problem with that, infact i will encourage it! But there are few who are untruthful, knowingly or unknowingly about thier skill and rules, Why are they doing that could be of many reasons, like the acknowledgement of being important or highly skilled.....

Many might asked why I am perturbed by it.... well, there are many beginners here and I am concerned that they might go down the road where it could be expensive and time consuming if they could not differentiate it. (an extreme example; club "a" good i hit 250 meters where u know that guy cant even launch a PW wedge) hope u see my point.

As u say we are here to learn and share, with a common goal of enjoying and improving our golf and make new friends ... I dont hava a good solution or answer for it.. but off my cuff, could it be to expose them or maybe classification of some kind (current hcp) but than again it would be unfair as I've known of many high handicappers with superior knowledge to the game.....

So we are back to square 1...... let the nature take it course???? or brave ones go and tell that chap off !

Lastly, I love the game of golf and respect the game, and i hope everyone who pick up this "game of life" will gve the upmost respect to it.

Just my thoughts
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:17 pm

Ah, you're talking about false modesty, the kind of people who say 'no lar, i'm just so-so', and proceed to shoot 80? There are always buayas in every community, that's part and parcel of life, not much you can do about that, just have to know not to give too many strokes Wink

As for expensive and time-consuming, here's my thoughts for beginners, having been one myself (considering my official HCP is supposed to be 10.9 right now, i can't claim to be a beginner any more), here are my thoughts:

0. if you are not prepared to invest time, money, effort, don't bother picking up golf. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I've never known anyone who plays decently and doesn't practice, and uses inappropriate equipment.

1a. if you are not yet committed to the game, and have a budget, go buy a 7 iron from any 2nd hand golf shop

1b. if you are determined to pick up the game and play it well/decently, my advice is to go buy a used set of irons. Doesn't have to be fancy, and a used set of Dunlop beginners irons (usually complete with driver, fairway wood, and a simple putter) would cost under SGD500, while a decent set of branded irons (e.g. Callaway X-18 or X-20) with a driver (SGD200 will get you something decent from TM, Callaway, Ping) and another SGD150 on a simple putter (Odyssey white hot putters are usually quite cheap used).

2. For golf balls, don't need to get fancy ones. Just buy a mixed bag of whatever you can get your hands on - some used golf equipment shops are quite sympathetic to beginners (e.g. My Golf Shop, run by Raymond Er) and sell Grade C balls cheap. Believe me, you'll be losing a lot of balls in your first couple of games.

3. Invest some money in coaching. There are various good coaches on this forum, each having their own styles, techniques and temperaments. At this stage, there is no such thing as right or wrong, you just need the basics to get off the ground. Coaches who come to mind right now include shorthitter, rightsideswing, and jhan. don't expect a miracle after 6 sessions. Some of us here have been playing golf for years and still shoot in the 90s.

4. Go for lessons, and remember to take notes. There is no shame in taking notes in a notepad. After lessons, spend at least half an hour practicing what you have learned in that day's lesson, and another half hour putting into practice what you have learned from previous lessons. Practice as much as time allows. I'm guilty of not doing that enough, but that's cos the practice facilities at my club close at 7 pm and I knock off from work at 6 pm Razz but I make up for it in the weekends, and even so, that's not enough.

5. Play on executive courses - Mandai, JCC and the one just outside MFA are good candidates - at least once a week. Even when I am back in Singapore, I take time out to get in practice at JCC when time permits, and still fail to shoot even par at that place. I tend to like JCC because the 5-hole layout covers basics of Par 3 and Par 4 holes, and gives you ample opportunity to use your driver, fairway woods, irons and wedges equally.

6. enjoy the game. Remember that golf is a game of probabilities/percentages. Pros play better because they have a higher chance of hitting a good shot than recreational golfers. We all have good days and bad days, and in the beginning, you will have more bad days than good. That's golf for you, but if you persevere, your game will definitely improve

7. avoid quick fixes - if your grip is neutral and you still have a tendency to push the ball, some people may advise you to take a stronger grip. This may or may not be the ideal solution, since the root cause of the problem may come from shifting (instead of rotating) of your hips during the downswing. As a result of a quick fix, you may end up creating bad habits and find yourself applying one band-aid over another without realizing it, and one day, you will look in the mirror and wonder what the hell happened to your nice looking swing. I speak from experience on this one, but the example may differ for you.

8. Practice your weakest shots. I used to find myself in A LOT of bunkers and as a result, I was forced to improve my sand game. Today, i can honestly say that my chances of getting out of any bunker is 95%, but that took hell of a lot of practice. Likewise, I used to only practice with my irons at the range and avoided my driver like the plague, which resulted in hurting my game as my tee shots would never find the fairway and I end up playing off shitty lies. I'm still working on improving my driving percentages (75% being the target) and distances, because I now realize that I shoot my best scores when I can make every drive land on a decent part of the fairway, as far from the tee box as possible. This usually leaves me with a 7i or shorter to play my 2nd shot, which gives me a decent chance at par (which is also why I practice my 7,8,9 and PW like a maniac)

9. course management is important - know the shots that you can make and shots that you cannot. If you tend to fade your drive and there's water on the right, don't keh kiang and try to aim for center of the fairway. there have been times where I pull out my hybrid (which I have a tendency to draw, can't figure out why) and tee off on such holes instead while my playing partners laugh at me when they tee off with a driver. They usually outdrive me, but at least I keep my ball in play and have a chance at bogey (which is better than trying to struggle for double bogey), and they end up with a similar score anyway Razz

10. remember that golf is about consistency. Build a consistent swing. of all the golf training aids I have bought over the years, there are two that have made the most difference for my game - a full length mirror (which I have at home in SG, and in Dubai, I use the reflection off the sliding door to the garden), and my high speed video cam (which I use for finding out where my swing goes wrong). in the beginning, the mirror would do you more good, since you can see from youtube how a good swing looks like, and you can use the mirror to emulate, spot mistakes, etc.

Enjoy Smile
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darenlim
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:26 pm

*CLAP CLAP*
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jurongtiger
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:30 pm

Wahhh never know your HCP become 10.9 now leh....

cheers
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:44 pm

EGF got some fancy way of calculation. I shot 91 at Sadiyaat, and they dropped my HCP from 11.3 to 10.7 - go figure Razz
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eiji
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:46 pm

ghoonk wrote:
EGF got some fancy way of calculation. I shot 91 at Sadiyaat, and they dropped my HCP from 11.3 to 10.7 - go figure Razz

since i got no handicap yet, i take it as 36.4, so 36.4-10.7 = 25.7, i don't ask for much, 9-9 at the kranji game ok? Twisted Evil
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:47 pm

orh Smile
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jurongtiger
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:56 pm

Hhahahaa. Try shooting another 90's Saadiyat this Saturday and then tell me if you break 10 for your HCP!!!

Hehhe... anyways, how to calculate this betting system. What is 9-9?
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:58 pm

i give you 9 stroke front 9 and 9 strokes back 9. If I shoot 40, and you shoot 49, you tie with me, you shoot 50 or more, you lose front 9, and if you shoot 48 or less, you win front 9. Then I pass you AED9 and smack you 9 times at the back of your head for trying to cheat me Smile
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eiji
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:00 pm

so complex, why not just give JT 0-1-2
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samT
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:04 pm

ghoonk wrote:
i give you 9 stroke front 9 and 9 strokes back 9. If I shoot 40, and you shoot 49, you tie with me, you shoot 50 or more, you lose front 9, and if you shoot 48 or less, you win front 9. Then I pass you AED9 and smack you 9 times at the back of your head for trying to cheat me Smile

I didn't know 9-9 meant this, i.e. total strokes. Learnt something new today. Thanks for pointing out.
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:18 pm

samT wrote:
ghoonk wrote:
i give you 9 stroke front 9 and 9 strokes back 9. If I shoot 40, and you shoot 49, you tie with me, you shoot 50 or more, you lose front 9, and if you shoot 48 or less, you win front 9. Then I pass you AED9 and smack you 9 times at the back of your head for trying to cheat me Smile

I didn't know 9-9 meant this, i.e. total strokes. Learnt something new today. Thanks for pointing out.

that's what I was told. I think eiji's 0-1-2 works the same way -- 0 strokes for Par 3, 1 stoke for Par 4, 2 strokes for Par 5 Smile
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watermyforrest
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:31 pm

Wah all so cheem!!!!
Ghoonk: our next game we play skins ok?
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:49 pm

your skin or mine? Smile
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jurongtiger
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:53 pm

ahhhh 9-9 and 0-1-2!

Now I know!

So this Saturday how?

9-9 + 0-1-2?
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:54 pm

you've been playing well recently, let's play square front 9 and adjust for back 9, onz?
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DGman
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:26 pm

jurongtiger wrote:
ahhhh 9-9 and 0-1-2!

Now I know!

So this Saturday how?

9-9 + 0-1-2?

Yo Jurongtoger......you are shameless....

but i like....better than howlian and reject strokes.

DGman
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watermyforrest
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:58 pm

DGman wrote:
better than howlian and reject strokes.

DGman

who could it be??????
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Tituman
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:59 pm

and68low wrote:




I totally agree with what you have said about sharing, giving tips and experience. I have no problem with that, infact i will encourage it! But there are few who are untruthful, knowingly or unknowingly about thier skill and rules, Why are they doing that could be of many reasons, like the acknowledgement of being important or highly skilled.....

Many might asked why I am perturbed by it.... well, there are many beginners here and I am concerned that they might go down the road where it could be expensive and time consuming if they could not differentiate it. (an extreme example; club "a" good i hit 250 meters where u know that guy cant even launch a PW wedge) hope u see my point.

As u say we are here to learn and share, with a common goal of enjoying and improving our golf and make new friends ... I dont hava a good solution or answer for it.. but off my cuff, could it be to expose them or maybe classification of some kind (current hcp) but than again it would be unfair as I've known of many high handicappers with superior knowledge to the game.....

So we are back to square 1...... let the nature take it course???? or brave ones go and tell that chap off !

Lastly, I love the game of golf and respect the game, and i hope everyone who pick up this "game of life" will gve the upmost respect to it.

Just my thoughts

Bro and68low, very well put. My England not so powderful so cant express so well when that time I tried to be the 'brave' one in a past thread that a certain vigilante, not a moderator, pm me to tell me off. Now I just don't care what all these 'part time pros' gives their views and advices like an expert...sigh Peace

titu
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RegiT
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:23 pm

Its not just the forum where this occurs. There are part time pros at every range in Singapore.
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:31 pm

@titu : ah, you want advice from full time pros ah? Easy lah

step 1 : ignore the part time pros in the forum. you know who they are Smile
step 2 : look up the full time pros : http://www.golfrepublic.org/ask-the-pro-f17/golf-professionals-contact-details-t767.htm

swee boh? Smile
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Tituman
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:45 pm

ghoonk wrote:
@titu : ah, you want advice from full time pros ah? Easy lah

step 1 : ignore the part time pros in the forum. you know who they are Smile
step 2 : look up the full time pros : http://www.golfrepublic.org/ask-the-pro-f17/golf-professionals-contact-details-t767.htm

swee boh? Smile

Swee bro but for me, I am already passed shelve life liao... lol! Being self taught for the past 8 years and one half of my 2 foot already stepping into you know where. So I am not going to waste any more time going to make some swing changes although I know thats where I should step. I would rather spent whatever time I have left playing with good flight mates and enjoy the game, regardless of whatever scores from me or from my kakis. So see you on the 5th afternoon next month bro. bounce

titu
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:56 pm

exactly! to each is own Smile

looking forward to our game next month Very Happy
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:56 pm

Folks, dont forget we have to pay for advice from real pros. its their livelihood. Or just buy golfdigest or buy leadbetter dvds. Last time i checked no one pay to get advice from gr. No one should expect real pro quality advice unless given by the red nicks. Theres a reason why people ask on a free, open forum instead of paying for lessons. Who are we to deny them the chance to get advice for free?

I say let nature takes its course.
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: How to reply a fellow GRian that won't sound arrogant and mislead others.   Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:00 am

well put!

you ready for our game on 5 July? Smile
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