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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Shot Shaping   Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:54 pm

I am trying to learn the different type of shaping shorts. My skills are limited and want to improvement them.

Can anyone recommend some sites or information that can teach shot shaping?
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slinger
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:57 pm

sebei howlian...... Very Happy
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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:58 pm

Sifu... how to be haolian.. I need to practice and learn then only i can be near to your standards...

Please part some skills for me... Kopi as bribe ok?
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slinger
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:08 am

i try to keep my disperson within a 10m radius, oreadi hard nough for me..... never think how shape left or right

if i find myself in your position to shape the shots, then i will just take my medicine n layup, i dun like to cheong, i thought u have learn your lesson.....haiz
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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:12 am

Ha ha.. still got cheong... but not so much liao. I must play a game with you..soon. 9-9 ok?
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slinger
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:55 am

only gu niang ask stroke for par 3...... have some pride lah

dun say i want to suan u...... Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:38 am

Why do you want to shape your shots KK? Hitting straight is too easy? Laughing

Just play your natural ballflight. Take more notice of the wind and know how it will affect it. eg A right-left wind will accentuate your draw and vice versa.

I dun remember playing a round where I need to shape shots more than once or twice. I know TW does it but he's not playing on the same level as any of us here so I dun think you will need to do it until you can consistently shoot in the single digits abv par per 18.
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:52 am

Khorkar, just one question..

Without looking, can you feel and tell where your clubhead is and where it's pointing at any point in your swing?

Clubhead awareness is the vital first step my friend.
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:21 am

For me, before I can shape my shots, I need to learn how to hit straight first. I plan to achieve that circa by December 2025.

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watermyforrest
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:36 am

I am trying to shape mine straight....
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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:45 am

Birdman wrote:
Khorkar, just one question..

Without looking, can you feel and tell where your clubhead is and where it's pointing at any point in your swing?

Clubhead awareness is the vital first step my friend.

Still cant tell yet whether my club face is and where its pointing. Sad Guess, the answer is that I am not ready....

I thought it would be good thing to learn about the type of shots available. I mean at times, when playing, you always wish that if you could done things better by playing it differently.
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:03 am

2 months ago, I do occasionally encountered shot shaping specifically for my 6 to 8 irons....(I don play 5 and less)....well, the only challenge, was that I did not know it happened till the ball left my clubface...

Nowadays, I more occasionally encountered accidental shot shaping ...more 'power fade' (to pro, they call it shank).

OK, on serious-er note, the only shot shaping which I could execute is controlling (more like trying) the trajectory only....
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:06 am

Shot shaping is a useful tool to have and will give you a great understanding of your swing pattern. It helps give you awareness of what your path and clubface are doing at impact as well as your angle of attack.
By understanding the ball flight laws and knowing how to read what your ball flight is doing, you are well on your way to being able to work out and correct any swing faults you may have.
Some swing patterns will only enable you to fade while others will only enable you to draw. By practicing shaping the ball in both directions you can neutralise your swing and generally straighten out your shots.
If you find you can only hit either a draw or a fade, this indicates you have a problem with your swing path and clubface. Maybe time to see a pro.
Most golfers will have a stock shot they prefer but the good players can hit either shape on demand.
My motto is that "the clubface is King" as this determines the starting direction of the ball.
The path of your swing will determine which way the ball will curve, i.e inside path will draw the ball, outside path will fade the ball
So to hit a right to left draw, the face needs to be slightly open at impact (this starts the ball to the right) and the path is coming from the inside (giving the ball the side spin). The opposite is true for a fade
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TigaWood
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:42 am

Birdman wrote:
Khorkar, just one question..

Without looking, can you feel and tell where your clubhead is and where it's pointing at any point in your swing?

Clubhead awareness is the vital first step my friend.

Excellent advice! to learn this awareness, all you need is to guess where your shots goes after hitting.
As times goes you will be able to guess how far off it went from your intended target.
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PinkPanther
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:56 am

Shot shaping is useful only when you are able to identify the type of shots you need to hit on the course. Hitting it straight will always be the best solution ; hitting it center of the green.

My current advise would be for you to hit the center of every green when you play on the course, regardless of the pin position.

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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:10 am

Straight shots are the hardest shot to hit and have the smallest margin of error
Hitting a shape gives you more of the golf course to use

Example: 30 meter wide fairway - if you aim straight down the middle u only have 15 metres of error on either side. If you play for a fade you can aim at the left edge of the fairway and fade from 0 - 30 meters and still be on fairway thus you have 30 metres of error as opposed to 15 meters. If ball doesn't fade as planned you will still be on left edge of fairway

Straight shot you need perfect club face and path. Fades and draws, the margins are not so precise. Its when it becomes a slice or a hook that it becomes a problem.

Most pros and top amateurs will have a prefered shape of shot for this reason

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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:15 am

Teaching even beginners to hit shapes is useful as it gives them an understanding of what the clubface and path are doing and what causes slices, hooks etc. They may not be able to execute these shots on demand but the knowledge they gain will fast track their learning
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PinkPanther
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:19 am

What is the definition of shot shaping?
- being able to hit it both ways at your will?
- hitting it one way?
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:21 am

Hitting it either way at you will, you can also add in high and low shots
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:58 am

another unintended benefit is that by seeing your shot shape, you know what likely happened with the swing and face angle. this will help in correctling mistakes.
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:20 pm

Right_sided_coach wrote:
Shot shaping is a useful tool to have and will give you a great understanding of your swing pattern. It helps give you awareness of what your path and clubface are doing at impact as well as your angle of attack.
By understanding the ball flight laws and knowing how to read what your ball flight is doing, you are well on your way to being able to work out and correct any swing faults you may have.
Some swing patterns will only enable you to fade while others will only enable you to draw. By practicing shaping the ball in both directions you can neutralise your swing and generally straighten out your shots.
If you find you can only hit either a draw or a fade, this indicates you have a problem with your swing path and clubface. Maybe time to see a pro.
Most golfers will have a stock shot they prefer but the good players can hit either shape on demand.
My motto is that "the clubface is King" as this determines the starting direction of the ball.
The path of your swing will determine which way the ball will curve, i.e inside path will draw the ball, outside path will fade the ball
So to hit a right to left draw, the face needs to be slightly open at impact (this starts the ball to the right) and the path is coming from the inside (giving the ball the side spin). The opposite is true for a fade


The clubface is open at impact in relation to swing path or target line?
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:54 pm

weesern wrote:
Right_sided_coach wrote:
Shot shaping is a useful tool to have and will give you a great understanding of your swing pattern. It helps give you awareness of what your path and clubface are doing at impact as well as your angle of attack.
By understanding the ball flight laws and knowing how to read what your ball flight is doing, you are well on your way to being able to work out and correct any swing faults you may have.
Some swing patterns will only enable you to fade while others will only enable you to draw. By practicing shaping the ball in both directions you can neutralise your swing and generally straighten out your shots.
If you find you can only hit either a draw or a fade, this indicates you have a problem with your swing path and clubface. Maybe time to see a pro.
Most golfers will have a stock shot they prefer but the good players can hit either shape on demand.
My motto is that "the clubface is King" as this determines the starting direction of the ball.
The path of your swing will determine which way the ball will curve, i.e inside path will draw the ball, outside path will fade the ball
So to hit a right to left draw, the face needs to be slightly open at impact (this starts the ball to the right) and the path is coming from the inside (giving the ball the side spin). The opposite is true for a fade


The clubface is open at impact in relation to swing path or target line?

Swing path and target line is different? I thought our swing path is to achieve club square on impact to hit our ball in the intended target line?
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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:32 pm

meaning if i can hit a fade or draw, i dont need to master the straight shot? shorts irons easier to get a straight shot but is frustrating trying to hit a straight 5 iron.

make sense as almost every long approach to the green, my first shot thought is often "i wish i can fade / draw this ball"

next question, how to train at the range for fade and draw......those instructional videos on the tube are just as vague.


PS. no money for coach these days...
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:08 pm

Shot shaping is not the same as your current swing producing a fade/draw. Having a swing produce a fade/draw just makes it more predictable to play to one side of the fairway maximising the landing area with a greater margin or error. In effect, it's almost like planning to zig zag your route to the final spot on the green. And it all starts from the tee box. Watch the pros and you'll see they tee off from one side or the other, favouring their preferred ball flight, sometimes even with their feet outside the tee markers while the ball is teed up inside. Most of us just plonk the tee in the centre of the tee box and whack away. Jack Nicklaus famously said "Any straight shot with a long club is a fluke". So play your natural shot shape with the longer clubs.

There are more than a few ways to deliberately hit a fade or draw. The simplest way and most predictable way is to swing the same but just re-align your swing path left or right of your aim. A fade or draw is a matter of crossing the lines, something which we do every time we play actually. Align your swing path in line with where you aim and you have a straight shot. If your swing path is aligned left across your aim path, a fade results, and vice versa. Easy to say, harder to do, since most of us swing outside-in more often than not.


Just My thoughts on Shot Shaping

Shot shaping is what Phil Mickelson and Tiger Woods does. Phil of course is the ultimate modern day feel player with a fair amount of technique thrown in, whereas Tiger is the best combination of technique and feel, making him more consistent in pulling off his miracle shots.

Keep it simple? A shotmaker never keeps it simple. Impossible? Sez who? They'll show you. They hit shots that defy gravity and boggles the mind. They let loose their imagination and try the ridiculous. How do you think Phil Mickelson learnt how to flop a shot backwards over his head?

The acknowledged master shot shaper of all is Severiano Ballesteros; hit all over the place, but boy, could he manufacture shots to save himself every single time. Anyone remember how he deliberately played to a carpark and then out of it for a birdie? That was in his prime, but sadly, since he was also the ultimate feel player, he lost the plot in his later years.

How did pros like Seve, Lee Trevino, and Chi Chi Rodriguez learn to shape shots? By being poor. They only ever had one club starting out in the game, more often than not a hand-me-down 5 iron from some rich club member on the courses where they caddied. One club for an 18 hole round of golf, so they learnt to hit every kind of conceivable shot they could from where the ball ended up, or they lost their day's earnings to another caddie. Off the tee, in the rough or bunker, around and on the green, till the ball ended up in the hole.

The great shotmakers won on both sides of the Atlantic. Tom Watson, Jack Nicklaus, and of course Seve Ballesteros. The lush courses of the US played play markedly different from the links courses of of the Scottish isles. It's target golf in the US, drive the clubhead through the soft manicured fairway for a divot and launch high for a soft landing (like a buterfly with sore feet). The windswept links courses called for sweeping swings that picked the ball off the hard fairways, ball kept low beneath the wind to hold its trajectory, with bump and run approaches to the greens. Only a shot maker could win on both sides of the big pond.

There have been articles that lament the lack of shotmaking with pros these days, of course with certain obvious exceptions. By and large that holds true, since there has been more technology than technique these days. The old pros never had a gap wedge! Every miracle shot Seve pulled off around the green was with either a pitching or sand wedge. Sure, we see some of those amazing shots today, but with with souped up Spin Milled Mack Daddy Zip grooves on 60 and 64 degree wedges. Where's the craft in that?

Wanna learn shotmaking? Play a round with just a 5 iron!



Last edited by Birdman on Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:43 pm; edited 2 times in total
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watermyforrest
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PostSubject: Re: Shot Shaping   Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:31 pm

Oh My God!!!
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