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 Club Fitting - what does it entail?

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golfdiva
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:22 am

watermyforrest wrote:
Finally, a direct plain vanilla answer...



Well said!

Admittedly, i'm a little overwhelmed with the varied responses.
But in summary, what i've gathered from the postings

- Fix your swing before you fix your clubs
- Try different clubs to get a feel of what you like
- If in doubt, go to Big Fish for an evaluation
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nientsu
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:31 am

Actually, to me....

Before you consider all these......its best to consider what your budget is. Fitting clubs, is usually more expensive than what you find is shops. Of cos, everyone will want the best of everything, if only we are not contraint by budget.
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golfdiva
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:38 am

nientsu wrote:
Actually, to me....

Before you consider all these......its best to consider what your budget is. Fitting clubs, is usually more expensive than what you find is shops. Of cos, everyone will want the best of everything, if only we are not contraint by budget.


I'm really new to this.
But I'm mentally setting aside about $1.5K for a new set of irons + hybrids.
Is this a reasonable budget for club fitting?
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nientsu
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:46 am

Its a good budget actually.

You may want to have a look at second-hand stores for hybrids/woods. Theres one at Kreta Ayer called Joes. They sell $100 - $200 max for a good piece of hybrid/wood.

That will prob give you more room for irons. If I am not wrong, I think Golf House is retailin a set of Mizuno Ladies irons for 900+ (if my memory doesnt fail me), they offer free fitting too if you purchase from them. My fren amanged to get a stand bag from them too.
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golfdiva
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:02 am

Thanks Nientsu.

Mizuno is one of the sets I'm considering actually. Have tried the TM and Callaway and somehow dun like the feel. I will pop by golf house to have a look first before deciding next course of action.

Last question, will fitted clubs be resaleable?
I mean the clubs are going to be fitted to the individual's specs so would anyone buy them in the used club mkt should I decide to change my clubs again later on?
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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:03 am

golfdiva wrote:
nientsu wrote:
Actually, to me....

Before you consider all these......its best to consider what your budget is. Fitting clubs, is usually more expensive than what you find is shops. Of cos, everyone will want the best of everything, if only we are not contraint by budget.


I'm really new to this.
But I'm mentally setting aside about $1.5K for a new set of irons + hybrids.
Is this a reasonable budget for club fitting?

I actually disagree witht he assumption that fitted clubs are more expensive.
In the prevoius forum I went thru the numbers, but let me redo it here...

A general off the shelf current model set of Irons will cost around 1300 to 1600.
Unfitted, just simply off the shelf. Yes there are cheaper alternatives, but we are trying to compare like to like.

For fitted clubs you are looking at the higher end of the range. But you get the grips you want, the best fit shafts possible, a selection of shafts to chose from and a selection of heads to chose from.

I am using rough numbers here: But here is the numerical comparison.
Off the Shelf set 1300 to 1600+
Loft and Lie alteration ($8 per club?) 4 to PW = 56 +
Change of grips (4 tp PW) 15 * 8 = 120

Total cost 1476 to 1776...

A comparative custom set will set you back slightly more, maybe 20% more.

But!!!
The likelihood of you changing an off the shelf set of clubs in the next year has a 70% probability... thus your cost per month run is 135.50, based on average cost for the set and assumed holding period of 12 months. After which a new set will result in another 12 months of write downs.

Lets assume that a custom set cost 2400 (I have exaggerated this number to illustrate).
But there is a 50% probaility you wont get another set for a further 6 months on top of the 12 months normal holding period, if you do decide to change at that.
Based on 2400, your cost per month is now 133.33.

That was one of the primary reasons why I decided to go custom. Additionally, the marketing machines for the various golf companies was irritating me. Given that some companies are launch "slightly imroved" clubs every 3 months, my grand kids may be playing R1099 drivers man.

But if you are going to change clubs with the same frequency for customs as off the shelfs, then buy the off the shelfs but be mindful of the cost to alter loft/lie, grips...
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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:06 am

golfdiva wrote:
Thanks Nientsu.

Mizuno is one of the sets I'm considering actually. Have tried the TM and Callaway and somehow dun like the feel. I will pop by golf house to have a look first before deciding next course of action.

Last question, will fitted clubs be resaleable?
I mean the clubs are going to be fitted to the individual's specs so would anyone buy them in the used club mkt should I decide to change my clubs again later on?

The clubs can be resold, alternations to Lie may be necessary.

Mizuno's are a great choice... I played them before getting my custom fitted sets. Nice feel, great quality... And they dont get superceded in a matter of weeks. I prefer to get the older models tho... Better pricing and similar performance level.
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nientsu
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:14 am

G_Man wrote:
golfdiva wrote:
nientsu wrote:
Actually, to me....

Before you consider all these......its best to consider what your budget is. Fitting clubs, is usually more expensive than what you find is shops. Of cos, everyone will want the best of everything, if only we are not contraint by budget.


I'm really new to this.
But I'm mentally setting aside about $1.5K for a new set of irons + hybrids.
Is this a reasonable budget for club fitting?

I actually disagree witht he assumption that fitted clubs are more expensive.
In the prevoius forum I went thru the numbers, but let me redo it here...

A general off the shelf current model set of Irons will cost around 1300 to 1600.
Unfitted, just simply off the shelf. Yes there are cheaper alternatives, but we are trying to compare like to like.

For fitted clubs you are looking at the higher end of the range. But you get the grips you want, the best fit shafts possible, a selection of shafts to chose from and a selection of heads to chose from.

I am using rough numbers here: But here is the numerical comparison.
Off the Shelf set 1300 to 1600+
Loft and Lie alteration ($8 per club?) 4 to PW = 56 +
Change of grips (4 tp PW) 15 * 8 = 120

Total cost 1476 to 1776...

A comparative custom set will set you back slightly more, maybe 20% more.

But!!!
The likelihood of you changing an off the shelf set of clubs in the next year has a 70% probability... thus your cost per month run is 135.50, based on average cost for the set and assumed holding period of 12 months. After which a new set will result in another 12 months of write downs.

Lets assume that a custom set cost 2400 (I have exaggerated this number to illustrate).
But there is a 50% probaility you wont get another set for a further 6 months on top of the 12 months normal holding period, if you do decide to change at that.
Based on 2400, your cost per month is now 133.33.

That was one of the primary reasons why I decided to go custom. Additionally, the marketing machines for the various golf companies was irritating me. Given that some companies are launch "slightly imroved" clubs every 3 months, my grand kids may be playing R1099 drivers man.

But if you are going to change clubs with the same frequency for customs as off the shelfs, then buy the off the shelfs but be mindful of the cost to alter loft/lie, grips...

I am impressed!!!! Spoken like a true banker!

But you got a point about the likelihood of changing eqpt etc. My rationale was based on a one-time purchase.
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:18 am

On a related point, I think it makes less sense for a new player to get fitted clubs right off the get-go. IMHO, if you are new, it is important to learn the game first and build your swing. Fitted clubs are tailored to various attributes of your game which will change (likely rapidly) once you've started to progress in the sport.

Simply, at the outset of your golfing "career," you are likely to have a slower swingspeed and face more difficulty with low lofted and/or longer clubs. If you get fitted at this stage, your "custom" golf clubs will be great but soon may need to be revised.

Once you start mastering your swing, your muscles are strengthened and your game improves (hopefully) so your swingspeed picks up and you become more comfortable with the trickier clubs. At this stage, I think it is best to get fitted clubs. I'm not saying that you won't improve from here. On the contrary, improvements will likely happen but they will be aided by your fitted clubs and if anything, you can finetune your game by making more precise adjustments to your gear - it won't require a huge revision to your clubs.

Anyway, like I said, this is my opinion and of course, others may feel differently. Personally, I think fitted clubs make very good sense. I'm not using any fitted clubs right now aside from the my driver which has a fitted shaft. I'm convinced that with good fitting, I'm able to swing my driver more steadily and strike the ball more accurately. It doesn't always work that way but at the very least, I feel that the driver is somehow personalized for me and that in and of itself gives me more confidence in my game.

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Dstruc
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:20 am

Personally, club fitting is not really 'a must', But it's good to learn - Know your equipments. No harm doing a test and know your swing speed!

INFORMATION is KING!
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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:24 am

Actually, its nothing to do with being in the industry.
As Eric can tell you, I am one stingy wanker. not banker.

If you ask most people, they like to surf ads in the golf mags or the golf newspapers...
This increases their likelihood of a recursive purchase. And the irony is that companies will keep needing to come out with "cosmetically" new designs in the hopes of getting current users to stay with them and their new lines. And if the company is sucessful, we are likely to flog off our older sets, thus depressing the market... Its a win-win situation for them...

A custom set, chances are you wont sell. But if you do, the buyer is likely looking for a cheaper entry point into custom clubs anyway, so should know what they are in for. A win-win for you as the seller.
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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:27 am

Dstruc wrote:
Personally, club fitting is not really 'a must', But it's good to learn - Know your equipments. No harm doing a test and know your swing speed!

INFORMATION is KING!

I totally agree, most things in life are ironically not "a Must". But then again, most things in life that we buy revolve around our Wants, not our Needs.

My choice to go custom was purely a financial one. I enjoy golf more now that I know I have a set built around me. It take blaming the equipment out of the equation.
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shotah
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:25 pm

One thing i love about club fitting is that when everything is done, you will have less excuses and you cannot blame your equipment anymore when you hit a bad shot. Smile Bear in mind, this is only true if you are correctly fitted.
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ironfist
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:53 pm

hmmm then given that the 'off the rack' clubs that i want cost almost as much as custom fitted ones, and given that i've only just started and still building my swing, i shouldn't spend so much on the 'off the rack' ones and just buy second hand or cheaper clubs to improve my swing until it's consistent enough for custom fitting?
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:59 pm

If you notice the prices in PW, the clubs can be 2-3k before discount. even after discount, they are still be in that region. I guess when starting, just get a cheap set to work with with the right shaft/ close to can you should be using. eg. asking a guy to use a ladies set will not help in the swing. they are too light and flexible. If you are suppose to use S flex, getting a R flex should not have much harm on your swing. Just a guess.
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:06 pm

ironfist wrote:
hmmm then given that the 'off the rack' clubs that i want cost almost as much as custom fitted ones, and given that i've only just started and still building my swing, i shouldn't spend so much on the 'off the rack' ones and just buy second hand or cheaper clubs to improve my swing until it's consistent enough for custom fitting?

Sounds like a plan Smile There is a counter-argument, however. If you get a set which isn't suited for you or a cheapo 2nd hand set which doesn't play well, you may not enjoy the game as much. This may deter you from improving and investing in the sport. So, it's a toss-up. I would recommend doing some research and scouting around for a decent 2nd hand set. After you've played a while and you find a passion for the sport, go for a custom-fitted set.
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AXIV
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:34 pm

A properly fit set of clubs can:
produce more consistency
cure a chronic hook or slice
help you swing in balance
produce superior distance
give you greater control

If you did not know these facts, you are not alone. Equipment surveys make the statement that 90 percent of all golfers do not realize the importance of properly fitting golf clubs.

Players need to know that equipment can help a swing dramatically, and that improper equipment hinders the swing and its improvement.

Every golfer should know about his equipment because it affects positively (or negatively) every move you make to achieve square contact with the ball.

Instructors, learned long ago that the equipment students were playing with often hindered their ability to learn. In fact, made it impossible to make true success possible.

Through custom qualified fitting, you can truly produce clubs that make a difference.
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jaketang
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:54 pm

shotah wrote:
Guys, AXIV's dad has a shop in Ubi, maybe we can all go down and have a look.

AXIV, possibile to give your dad's Golf Studio address? Also looking forward to your dad's write up next month on the free golf paper.


yo, can i know the address? i working in ubi area.... would like to visit during one of my kopi session... Smile
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:18 pm

Most golfers swings when they are starting out are like "lightning", they never strike the same place twice. Still, I think you should follow some basic guidelines to make things easier when starting out. Ladies, please use ladies or even junior clubs, not your husbands old clubs he passed down to you. You need as much flex as you can and something light weight.
Guys starting out, its best to use a lightweight steel or graphite shafted club in regular, oversize heads. Most important thing is to get the correct grip size and the correct shaft length. As a coach I can not teach you the basic fundamentals of how to grip the club and how to get the correct posture without these two being correct. After all, your hands will not grow or shrink and you will not get any taller (juniors are the exception here)
Admittedly your swing will improve over time and swing speed will increase, which will required either stiffer or heavier shafts, but when starting out, get some 2nd hand clubs you like the look of and have a fitter such as BFG adjust the length and grip size and lies if they are extremely out.
Once you have developed a swing, then you should look at custom fitted clubs. For better players, the shaft flex, weight, length, lie angle, swing weight, grip size are all very important to controlling your golf ball.
Incorrectly fitted clubs make the game harder than it already is and you will develop swing faults to compensate for the wrong equipment. Easier to adjust clubs to your swing than the other way around.
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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:42 pm

jaketang wrote:
shotah wrote:
Guys, AXIV's dad has a shop in Ubi, maybe we can all go down and have a look.

AXIV, possibile to give your dad's Golf Studio address? Also looking forward to your dad's write up next month on the free golf paper.


yo, can i know the address? i working in ubi area.... would like to visit during one of my kopi session... Smile

The Golf Studio.
57 Ubi Ave 1, #08-04 Ubi Centre, Singapore 408936.
Ph : 6844 5661; Fax : 6844 6916. Email : mdhiggs@pacific.net.sg ...

this should be it I think...

BFG is at

Contact Us
Singapore

Blk 1003 Bukit Merah Central
#03-11
Singapore 159836

Tel: (65) 64712272
Fax: (65) 64712221
Email: golf@bigfishes.com

and

Orchid Country Club Driving Range
#01-03

Opening hours:
12.00 pm to 7.00 pm
(Mondays to Saturdays)
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AXIV
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:48 pm

COMPENSATING MOTIONS


SWING PROBLEMS RESULTING FROM IMPROPER LIE ANGLE

A golfer with poorly fitted or non-fitted clubs will adjust their swing to hit the accuracy clubs straight, and then finds that the other clubs go left or right depending on the compensation. In most cases the accuracy clubs are the short irons.

Lie angle too flat (toe down at impact)
strong grip
alignment left of target
loss of balance to the toes
the use of excessive arm and hand speed
hooded shaft irons hitting them incrementally longer
open long irons, producing less distance
prefers longer than standard clubs
hits three wood off the tee
iron shots struck on toe of clubbead
perimeter weighted clubs preferred

Lie angle too upright (toe up at impact)
weak grip
-alignment right of target loss of balance to the heels dead hands (a cutting sensation) short irons open
hits woods better than long irons, hits long irons better than short irons prefers blade clubs
hits ball in the heel of clubhead -shanking problems from time to time short irons very high and short
wedge shots pulled while driver shots pushed
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mervyntan
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:51 pm

hi AXIV,

you obviously know a great deal about golf and club-fitting and i can see that you are trying to make a positive impact on this community. for that, i thank you.

however, i believe that you would do better if you could make your texts a little more layman-friendly and actually tried to communicate instead of trying to use letters to form words.

cheers!
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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:55 pm

mervyntan wrote:
hi AXIV,

you obviously know a great deal about golf and club-fitting and i can see that you are trying to make a positive impact on this community. for that, i thank you.

however, i believe that you would do better if you could make your texts a little more layman-friendly and actually tried to communicate instead of trying to use letters to form words.

cheers!

Bro, if he wrote in simpler terms, it would be pictures and hand actions la.

AXIV, thanks for the post. Rather informative. I use clubs that are 3 degrees upright, so its rather interesting to see the impact of such a change to my clubs. As it is my ideal set up now, I dont have any issues with the additional 3 degrees. But was a rather interesting read to see what can be rightfully blamed on lie differences.
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mervyntan
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:57 pm

no lah, i was asking for powerpoint slides with pictures and animations.
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shotah
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PostSubject: Re: Club Fitting - what does it entail?   Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:03 pm

Hi AXIV, is 6 deg flat too flat???
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