Golf Republic Forum - Singapore's most active golfing forum.
 
HomeFAQCalendarRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Which is more important Dispersion or distant?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
AuthorMessage
TigaWood
Super Active Golfer
Super Active Golfer


Posts : 2411
Join date : 2009-11-29
Location : www.HuatLeow.com

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:08 pm

Yarra wrote:
It's a no-brainer, really...

Would you rather drive 300 yards and spray it all over the place... Or you would have it about 225 yards (on average) splitting the fairways most of the time?

hahahaha .......I can always split the fairway at 225 yard.
After awhile you start to envy those we can drive 300 yards even they are spraying.
Back to top Go down
http://www.HuatLeow.com
weesern
Super Active Golfer
Super Active Golfer


Posts : 1594
Join date : 2009-06-21

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:22 am

it really depends on how bad is the dispersions...
I guess it should the farthest u can hit without having a wide dispersion

220 to the middle of the fairway and 250 to the edge of the fairway.... both still on fairway but the club use for the second shot can make a lot of difference
Back to top Go down
S70B
Course Marshal
Course Marshal


Posts : 5118
Join date : 2009-06-18
Location : Home sweat home...

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:12 am

SBH, Before I tackle the original question, I will share my views on whether distance or direction is more impt.

Base on folklore and hearsay about your more than decent game, I would expect you to be in the hdcp 4-8 range? Pardon me if I am wrong. Embarassed

I am probably one of the only ones who think distance is more important than ever in today's modern game.

Back in the 90s and early 2000s, that shdn't be the case as courses hardly stretch over 7000yds back then. Heck, you can tackle the local oldskool courses like Keppel and the old Warren course (near the Sg Poly) without a driver and still come back with a decent score.


My eyes were opened as I came over to the US to play a crapload of courses that were PGA tour stops standard. Let me just say that if you hold a 10 or under hdcp by playing a lot at your home course, you wouldn't have a chance breaking 85 on a regular basis here.

From the back, the par 3s are all in the 190-230yd range, par 4s will measure close to 500yds and the par 5s will be close to 600....sometimes when Murphy calls, these will play predominantly INTO the wind. If you think a 225yd carry down the middle will be enough to tackle this kinda course, think again. Sometimes, 225yds is not even enough to make it to the fairway or even the forced carry over trouble on a PAR 4. From a single hdcpper's POV, I do think the chances of playing well on such courses will be very slim.

I used to think my 265-270yd (nil wind) drives were enough for me to tackle most courses. How wrong I was when I 1st stepped into the courses in Florida. Lemme give you an eg: Playing the Ryder course in the PGA Village, there wer 4 par 4s that were in the 500yd range where my Driver + 3 wd left me with a 20-30yd pitch because the prevailing winds were head on at 15-20mph. Also, I busted my drives and 3 wds on those holes to give myself a CHANCE to have that 30yd pitch. I shudder to think what worse scores can be possible if I found trouble off the tee or the 2nd shot.

Jack Nicklaus in his heyday was asked whether distance was overrated. He replied that distance is one of the most important factors as you can teach a person to be accurate over time but cannot teach 1 how to be long. This came from the guy who was one of the longest hitters in his time and the greatest accomplished player atm. If I can start all over again, I will learn to hit the ball as hard as I can as you are fearless when you are just starting out.


If you look at the top 10 in the WGR, there are no short punters. Steve Stricker, Jim Furyk and Luke Donald are all still middle of the pack-kinda distances.

Another great example is to go look at those fellow Keppel members (non juniors)scores and how do they fare when they play the SGA amateur opens at Warren. Those 6-10 hdcpers struggle to break 95, sometimes even 100! Why? Cos they play off the gold tees and Warren is a very very tough track from the back. They may hold an 8 hdcp back at Keppel but they have no chance playing such other much longer courses.



On the other hand, I have seen tons of beginners try to hit it alot harder by swinging out of their shoes when they decide that distance is lacking. Lemme just say that the 1st and foremost factor in getting more distance is hitting the SWEETSPOT. You can give it a baseball homerun thwack but if you catch a El Hosele, its bye bye 50yds right mate.

Learn to hit it in the centre of the club. Then find the fastest tempo and rhythm you can manage to stay in balance for the swing. Next will be to head to the gym and do golf-related stretching and exercises but you will be limited by your own potential. An eg will be to look at Zach Johnson's workout regime. What he does at the gym can put 95% of us to shame when we say we go to the gym but that fella is still only middle of the pack in terms of distance and in yesterday's round, he was consistently 40-60yds behind Dustin Johnson. Same last name, different ways to play the game.



Sorry for the long rant but I do think the main reason most do not improve is because of complacency. If you want to be a good and better player, (as everyone who takes up a sport normally do), you will want to get better, longer, sharper...and in the modern game, all the factors have to be improved.



Lastly, back to the original question. There will always be a shaft and head combo where you will find the least dispersion. However, do not rely too much on equipment to solve your swing issues. I have found my ideal driver atm but I still do hit the occasional wild push or hook but I can rest assured that its my swing and not the equipment that was the cause.
Back to top Go down
ghoonk
Honorary Landscaper
Honorary Landscaper


Posts : 2414
Join date : 2009-12-16
Age : 43
Location : Dubai / Singapore

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:30 am

in short, both are important.

To use an example like yours:

JGE's courses have a number of Par 3s that are around 200 yards. Not for the faint-hearted or those who don't have the distance and the accuracy. There are also a couple of long Par 4s and par 5s that are hard to reach without distance or accuracy - a nice, long drive, a straight hybrid, and a damn accurate 3rd shot. That, and being able to putt off keropok greens designed by sadists Razz
Back to top Go down
Yarra
Super Active Golfer
Super Active Golfer


Posts : 1043
Join date : 2010-03-01

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:19 am

seebayho wrote:
Yarra wrote:
It's a no-brainer, really...

Would you rather drive 300 yards and spray it all over the place... Or you would have it about 225 yards (on average) splitting the fairways most of the time?

hahahaha .......I can always split the fairway at 225 yard.
After awhile you start to envy those we can drive 300 yards even they are spraying.

I would not envy them who drive 300 yards into the hazards for sure... In fact, I love playing with those guys, easy money! Wink
Back to top Go down
Yarra
Super Active Golfer
Super Active Golfer


Posts : 1043
Join date : 2010-03-01

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:21 am

ghoonk wrote:
in short, both are important.

To use an example like yours:

JGE's courses have a number of Par 3s that are around 200 yards. Not for the faint-hearted or those who don't have the distance and the accuracy. There are also a couple of long Par 4s and par 5s that are hard to reach without distance or accuracy - a nice, long drive, a straight hybrid, and a damn accurate 3rd shot. That, and being able to putt off keropok greens designed by sadists Razz

But if I have to choose one or the other, I'd take the middle of fairway any day over long and hazardous... Wink
Back to top Go down
bomby
Senior Golfer
Senior Golfer


Posts : 439
Join date : 2010-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:33 am

seebayho wrote:


If accuracy is more important, should all of us be using stiffer shaft?

IMHO we still need a certain distance to be able to reach the hole, but let say you can hit 100m max but you are accurate, you can actually bogey most par 4 and maybe par on par 3... and par 5s. that is a score of low 90s (from white tee)
Back to top Go down
bomby
Senior Golfer
Senior Golfer


Posts : 439
Join date : 2010-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:37 am

seebayho wrote:
Yarra wrote:
It's a no-brainer, really...

Would you rather drive 300 yards and spray it all over the place... Or you would have it about 225 yards (on average) splitting the fairways most of the time?

hahahaha .......I can always split the fairway at 225 yard.
After awhile you start to envy those we can drive 300 yards even they are spraying.

That is why we need to stop playing with those long hitters!! Because sooner or later, they will influence you to hit harder and try to match them.. which will end up having your ball spray all over the place.
Back to top Go down
TigaWood
Super Active Golfer
Super Active Golfer


Posts : 2411
Join date : 2009-11-29
Location : www.HuatLeow.com

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:26 pm

bomby wrote:
seebayho wrote:


If accuracy is more important, should all of us be using stiffer shaft?

IMHO we still need a certain distance to be able to reach the hole, but let say you can hit 100m max but you are accurate, you can actually bogey most par 4 and maybe par on par 3... and par 5s. that is a score of low 90s (from white tee)


Hahahaha, I want sub 80. leh
Back to top Go down
http://www.HuatLeow.com
alvin7379
Incredibly Active Golfer
Incredibly Active Golfer


Posts : 2916
Join date : 2009-11-24
Age : 37
Location : Anywhere Comfortable

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:52 pm

seebayho wrote:

Hahahaha, I want sub 80. leh

You olready sub 80 leh.... Laughing
Back to top Go down
http://www.visualtech.com.sg
bomby
Senior Golfer
Senior Golfer


Posts : 439
Join date : 2010-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:04 pm

seebayho wrote:
bomby wrote:
seebayho wrote:


If accuracy is more important, should all of us be using stiffer shaft?

IMHO we still need a certain distance to be able to reach the hole, but let say you can hit 100m max but you are accurate, you can actually bogey most par 4 and maybe par on par 3... and par 5s. that is a score of low 90s (from white tee)


Hahahaha, I want sub 80. leh

Thats my point. If you have accuracy.. no distance.. you can already hit low 90s.. if add a bit of distance.. sub 70s liao!! BTW.. I am still at 110++ --.. no distance and no accuracy Sad
Back to top Go down
tronos
Super Active Golfer
Super Active Golfer


Posts : 1121
Join date : 2009-06-21

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:08 pm

for those that cannot consistently score low, distance is one of golfing pleasures.

Most beginners, including, myself live and die by the driver. it can be a 15-20 strokes swing on a good vs bad driver day (just 5 bad tee shots, with balls missing, is enough to cost u 10 strokes..not counting the strokes lost due to balls OB, in water, bad lie.......).

If you want to hit down the middle, tee off with the 3 wood, its more accurate with a bit of distance lost only. The score will come down also.

Better players play with shorter, heavier, stiffer driver shafts cause they can still average 250 yards with more accuracy. We should not be playing 44 inch drivers if we can only get 200m.


Back to top Go down
Turbo
Hall of Fame Golfer
Hall of Fame Golfer


Posts : 5879
Join date : 2009-09-30
Age : 90
Location : Pin Hole

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:35 pm

To me, it depends entirely on the situation. If the fairway is very narrow, I would definitely go for accuracy... I would likely tee off with a 3 or 5 woods ...
Back to top Go down
X-Man
Senior Golfer
Senior Golfer


Posts : 402
Join date : 2009-06-17
Location : Singapore

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:57 pm

I vote for dispersion any day... in terms of distance I would like to have consistency rather than being long...
Back to top Go down
ghoonk
Honorary Landscaper
Honorary Landscaper


Posts : 2414
Join date : 2009-12-16
Age : 43
Location : Dubai / Singapore

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:04 pm

I used to say that too, when I shot in the mid/high-90s, cos I never aimed to hit the green in regulation anyway.

But now, in trying to shoot for pars, I need to get in close or hit GIR, so accuracy AND distance are important.

Take the 610 yard Par 5 on the final hole of the Earth course at Jumeirah Golf Estates. I drive around 240-250 yards, so I have 360-370 yards to go. If I pull a club that only gets me 200 yards with a reasonable level of accuracy to keep the ball out of the creek down the middle of the hole, I still have a goo 160-170 yards to put the ball on. That means having to be accurate with my 6i (if I'm playing to a middle pin) or up to 180 yards if I'm playing to a back pin

Add in headwinds which are common in the PM rounds, and that means i need to be long and accurate with my 2nd and 3rd shots. So yeah, long vs accurate is not mutually exclusive -- if you want to be able to shoot lower scores, you need to be both.

Another example - a 220 yard Par 3 on the 2nd hole of the Fire course. What would you guys tee off with to hit the ball 200m and have it stop on a firm green? You need to carry at least 195m cos there are front, side and back bunkers guarding the hole. In my case, I play a hybrid or long iron to lay up just before the bunkers and play an easy pitch to get close. On a good day, I get close enough to have a good chance to par with 1 putt, otherwise, i settle for a bogey with 2-putt. On a lucky day with tailwind, and I rip the shot, it might land on the green, but I usually still require a 2-putt to par, sometimes 3 putts if I land it on the wrong side of the green. In this case, would you say that distance and accuracy are mutually exclusive?

I have a few more examples that I can cite, a dogleg right at The Els Club where you can cut a tiger line over water (fade and drown!) and play a 7i to the green (with water on the right and a bunker on the back and left), or play it safe and hit a 3w to a landing area at the dogleg and play a good 180-190 yards to the pin. Again, accuracy is important, but distance cannot be neglected.

I have played with senior folk (50+) who shoot in the low 80s because they have amazing short games, but also have accuracy with their fairway woods, which allow them to get close enough to get their short game into play and shoot pars or at worst, bogeys.
Back to top Go down
eiji
Course Marshal
Course Marshal


Posts : 6193
Join date : 2009-08-22
Age : 35
Location : Training

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:33 pm

I have neither...dispersion or distance, so all these talk makes me sad.
Back to top Go down
http://www.idealparts.com.sg
bomby
Senior Golfer
Senior Golfer


Posts : 439
Join date : 2010-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:35 pm

eiji wrote:
I have neither...dispersion or distance, so all these talk makes me sad.

Sama Sama.. envy ppl who shoot 100 and below!!
Back to top Go down
zhenxua
Incredibly Active Golfer
Incredibly Active Golfer


Posts : 4638
Join date : 2010-02-11

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:42 pm

Given now that I play between 100 and 110 regularly, I would rather go for eagle on par 5s since I will blow some holes anyway. At least I have better satisfaction after the game.
Back to top Go down
ghoonk
Honorary Landscaper
Honorary Landscaper


Posts : 2414
Join date : 2009-12-16
Age : 43
Location : Dubai / Singapore

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:07 pm

Yarra wrote:
ghoonk wrote:
in short, both are important.

To use an example like yours:

JGE's courses have a number of Par 3s that are around 200 yards. Not for the faint-hearted or those who don't have the distance and the accuracy. There are also a couple of long Par 4s and par 5s that are hard to reach without distance or accuracy - a nice, long drive, a straight hybrid, and a damn accurate 3rd shot. That, and being able to putt off keropok greens designed by sadists Razz

But if I have to choose one or the other, I'd take the middle of fairway any day over long and hazardous... Wink

If I had a choice, i'd practice till I was long and accurate. That's what I'm saying. Even if I am accurate, I still end up with a long 3rd shot in, and we all know that accuracy goes down as we are further from the pin Razz
Back to top Go down
eiji
Course Marshal
Course Marshal


Posts : 6193
Join date : 2009-08-22
Age : 35
Location : Training

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:14 pm

I rather be long now, and inaccurate, accuracy can slowly dial in.


Swing speed harder to work at once a swing is form rather than clubhead angle and club path.

_________________
Callaway Razr Fit Xtreme 10.5* Ahina 60 R
PRGR EGG Spoon 15* MRC Fubuki Alpha 70S
Adams Super Hybrid XTD 19* MRC Fubuki AH R
Adams A12 Pro 23* GD Tour AD UT85 R
Callaway X Hot Pro 5-PW PX95 5.5
Titleist SM4 50*, 54*, 58* DG Spinner
Scotty Studio Select 2012 Golo 33"
Back to top Go down
http://www.idealparts.com.sg
alvinlee
Junior Golfer
Junior Golfer


Posts : 103
Join date : 2010-08-10

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:22 pm

eiji wrote:
I rather be long now, and inaccurate, accuracy can slowly dial in.


Swing speed harder to work at once a swing is form rather than clubhead angle and club path.

@eiji, then you really gotta put in the effort and possibly to the extend of taking lessons.
I know cuz this is my problem right now..i can be long but way off target.
for those who are familiar with keppel, i can be on the middle of the adjacent fairway trying to salvage a par. however on courses with more water hazards or OB, my scores shoot up high real quick.
unfortunately I m not playing as much as I love to. so the consistency wont be there..
but i kinda agree with your statement though that the swing speed is harder to work at.

Back to top Go down
ghoonk
Honorary Landscaper
Honorary Landscaper


Posts : 2414
Join date : 2009-12-16
Age : 43
Location : Dubai / Singapore

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:26 pm

Actually, the converse is true. Accuracy comes from a consistent/repeatable swing. As you gain strength and core stability, while maintaining the quality of the swing, your ballstriking will improve and distance will come.

On the other hand, if you focus on distance and hoping to stabilize the swing along the way, you'll generally find golfers who start band aiding - I've seen some people with crazy strong grips who can kill the ball on a good day, but on a bad day, they are anywhere but on the green stuff, and struggle like hell to stay below 100.

Most of the players I know have the same consistent swing, and if they need to juice it, they don't end up losing that much accuracy.

I would say that high handicappers who want to shoot lower scores and still bomb the ball all over the place should have a damn sharp short game. I'm talking about being able to hit the green from anywhere, any terrain short of wet within 130m, and being able to 2 putt consistently. If that's your game plan, it will work until you hit that brick wall where you find that you need to find that blend of accuracy and distance.

To date, I'm able to keep a reasonable score on a bad day due to a decent short game that's saved me 3 out of the last 4 rounds this festive weekend. Iron play stank, as did driving, so no distance, no accuracy. But for me, that's Plan B. Plan A means I drive well, consistently killing my irons and hybrids, and acing my short game. But it has been a long time since I had a good driving and irons day with bad short game day...
Back to top Go down
ghoonk
Honorary Landscaper
Honorary Landscaper


Posts : 2414
Join date : 2009-12-16
Age : 43
Location : Dubai / Singapore

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:19 pm

swing speed will come when you learn to lag, which still depends on being consistent with your swing mechanics. You can't be accurate or consistent with crap mechanics.

Also, don't count on being able to borrow too many fairways. IIRC, WGC has a lot of OB areas, so land the ball in the wrong fairway is an OB, and that's penalties which lead to high scores.

Consistency can be built up at the range, if you have 2 hours to spend every week, and a good practice plan.

Up until last week, my slightly inconsistent swing got me to an all-time low of 82. On Thursday, I shot 83 on the Fire course at JGE, but that very day, I realized that there was no way I was going to shoot any lower -- i found that the way I was releasing the clubhead into the ball gave me decent compression but depended heavily on timing.

So Thursday night, I go see my swing sifu at Golf House and we had a long honest look at my swing. As suspected, my ballstriking was good, but I had a tendency to push/fade my shots, and my address position was somewhat forced and a little too unnatural. These 'tweaks' that I've been introducing into my address and swing were the result of intuitive band-aids to cover up for my tendency to take the clubhead back outside or in line with the target line.

So we went back to basics, with new drills that forced me to ROTATE my shoulders to trigger the backswing, which in turn resulted in the clubhead being taken back on a more natural arc INSIDE the target line without using my arms, and the only action from the arms/hands was the cocking of the wrists. This new swing also had me standing taller and more naturl

Shot 89 on Friday and 90 on Saturday - felt like I was struggling to keep my irons in play, was saved by a couple of well struck hybrid shots. But I could feel that the new swing is giving me a bit more accuracy with less effort (and promotes a lighter grip) -- i'm hitting the ball as far as before with slightly reduced percentage on ballstriking quality (not fully used to the new swing yet), but as I groove the new swing, I can tell that ballstriking quality will improve, and with it, distance
Back to top Go down
CoastGuy
Senior Golfer
Senior Golfer


Posts : 318
Join date : 2010-05-15

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:35 pm

eiji wrote:
I rather be long now, and inaccurate, accuracy can slowly dial in.


Swing speed harder to work at once a swing is form rather than clubhead angle and club path.


Bro eiji, I Totally Agree with you.. Beer
I feel that distance is something that you either have it or you dun.
It is really difficult to increase our swing speed by a mere 5mph.
Equipment can help, but only to a certain extend. If your clubs are already fitted to you, there is really nothing much one could do, except training up those core muscles to help you hit further. And sad to say, at our age .... how many of us can really do that?
I believe that accuracy is something that everyone can achieved, if they
put in enough time and training into it.
For a social golfer, accuracy is more important to make you enjoy your game.
But to be competitive and hit low scores, you got to at least achieved a respectable distance with your clubs.
Just my personal view... I HIT IT
Back to top Go down
ghoonk
Honorary Landscaper
Honorary Landscaper


Posts : 2414
Join date : 2009-12-16
Age : 43
Location : Dubai / Singapore

PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:39 pm

Generating clubhead speed is easier than being accurate. And I'm as much a social golfer as any of you guys are. The way i see it, you're either committed to improving or you're not. Otherwise, there's no point talking about whether it is better to be accurate or long Smile
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Today at 9:44 pm

Back to top Go down
 
Which is more important Dispersion or distant?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 6Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 Similar topics
-
» How important are your balls... golf balls that is...
» Important Information
» Usually, what is your most important swing thoughts?
» Food Recall - Very Important
» Is spinning check for driver shaft important

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Singapore Golf Forum - Golf Republic :: The Pro Shop :: Golf Equipment-
Jump to:  
Friends of Golf RepublicFriends of Golf RepublicFriends of Golf Republic
Copyright © 2009 Golf Republic. All Rights Reserved.