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 Which is more important Dispersion or distant?

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golfcoma
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:46 pm

As with most things, I think there just needs to be a balance between distance and dispersion. That balance probably shifts a little depending on the level of play of the golfer, and the course layout.

I've had to play some holes teeing off with a 4 iron because the fairways are very tight and the consequence is too severe if you're not on the short stuff, even if it means that I may not be able to GIR the longer holes. But we can still probably bogey or maybe even par it if our short game is on/lucky that day. For the 220 yard par 3s, I sometimes just lay up with an iron depending on the hazards around the green, especially if I'm playing into the wind. I do genuinely believe in a good bogey for some holes and maybe that's why I'm no pro, haha.

That said, I would give an edge to dispersion over distance even though I'm not a long driver. This is just one average golfer's opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:55 pm

Ghoonk i disagree. Why? Because with dispersion, its easier to solve, simply put your swing on a video, see what's the causes, work at it by breaking your swing apart and solve it slowly, backswing, transition, downswing, release, follow through, etc. Swing speed as associate to lag, you can be lagging but if ur muscles are only able to generate that much speed, no matter how much u work out, u can probably squeeze out a few more mph.

now let's look at this on a case by case basis.

Person with swing speed but no accuracy, all he needs to work on his correcting the clubhead angle and path, by disecting his swing and working on it

Person with accuracy but no swing speed, he works out to get the swing speed, after generating higher swing speed, he loses accuracy as a result of trying to swing harder, he has to now rework getting accuracy back or he will dial back his strength to get accuracy which results in no gains at all.


so for a person starting out, its easier to work at swinging it hard and long then working on dispersion than the opposite.

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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:07 pm

Hmmm, two sides of the same coin?
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:26 pm

ghoonk wrote:
Yarra wrote:
ghoonk wrote:
in short, both are important.

To use an example like yours:

JGE's courses have a number of Par 3s that are around 200 yards. Not for the faint-hearted or those who don't have the distance and the accuracy. There are also a couple of long Par 4s and par 5s that are hard to reach without distance or accuracy - a nice, long drive, a straight hybrid, and a damn accurate 3rd shot. That, and being able to putt off keropok greens designed by sadists Razz

But if I have to choose one or the other, I'd take the middle of fairway any day over long and hazardous... Wink

If I had a choice, i'd practice till I was long and accurate. That's what I'm saying. Even if I am accurate, I still end up with a long 3rd shot in, and we all know that accuracy goes down as we are further from the pin Razz

I am not greedy, I just need 20M more off the tee!
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:37 pm

Ghoonk, you are 6' ..6'2"?? With your height, size and mass, its easy for you to gather swing speed than a 5' 6/7" guy. Sure ..there are people like Luke Donald who is not much taller or bigger in mass able to swing good distance, but this are the exceptional. Thats why they are pro. But an average 5' 6" guy have big problem of generating 100/105mph of SS. So size plays a part in imparting certain amount of SS. They have an advantage over the smaller built guys. I put at the ratio of maybe 1 out of 20 or 30 small built guys being able to muscle up good SS.? Its not easy for the smaller guys.
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CoastGuy
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:52 pm

ghoonk wrote:
Generating clubhead speed is easier than being accurate. And I'm as much a social golfer as any of you guys are. The way i see it, you're either committed to improving or you're not. Otherwise, there's no point talking about whether it is better to be accurate or long Smile

Bro ghook, you have No idea how committed I am... haha.. Swing
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:59 pm

Heh. I would like to hear what coaches have to say about this line of thinking. So far, no one has said anything, just us seasoned beginners and beginners Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:00 pm

CoastGuy wrote:
ghoonk wrote:
Generating clubhead speed is easier than being accurate. And I'm as much a social golfer as any of you guys are. The way i see it, you're either committed to improving or you're not. Otherwise, there's no point talking about whether it is better to be accurate or long Smile

Bro ghook, you have No idea how committed I am... haha.. Swing

Yup he is one of the 1 outta 20/30 who can hit 250m from what I heard . affraid
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:05 pm

Quote :
Tituman wrote:
CoastGuy wrote:
ghoonk wrote:
Generating clubhead speed is easier than being accurate. And I'm as much a social golfer as any of you guys are. The way i see it, you're either committed to improving or you're not. Otherwise, there's no point talking about whether it is better to be accurate or long Smile

Bro ghook, you have No idea how committed I am... haha.. Swing

Yup he is one of the 1 outta 20/30 who can hit 250m from what I heard . affraid


Or the other way to put it,,,,,Coastguy is the direct opposite of me (fm commitment standponit)
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:20 pm

This isn't about WHO is committed and who isn't. It's about the sort of results one can expect, against the quality and commitment to practice and play.

Someone who plays twice a month and practices little should not worry about distance vs accuracy. In this case, then might as well worry less, just go out and have as much fun as possible Smile
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Yarra
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:13 pm

ghoonk wrote:
Yarra wrote:
ghoonk wrote:
in short, both are important.

To use an example like yours:

JGE's courses have a number of Par 3s that are around 200 yards. Not for the faint-hearted or those who don't have the distance and the accuracy. There are also a couple of long Par 4s and par 5s that are hard to reach without distance or accuracy - a nice, long drive, a straight hybrid, and a damn accurate 3rd shot. That, and being able to putt off keropok greens designed by sadists Razz

But if I have to choose one or the other, I'd take the middle of fairway any day over long and hazardous... Wink

If I had a choice, i'd practice till I was long and accurate.

Well, sometimes not everybody has the luxury of practice times... Wink
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slinger
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:28 pm

how i wish i can be as committed as some of the folks here.....

then maybe i can win as many titles as mloy.... bounce
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:40 pm

Yarra wrote:
ghoonk wrote:
Yarra wrote:
ghoonk wrote:
in short, both are important.

To use an example like yours:

JGE's courses have a number of Par 3s that are around 200 yards. Not for the faint-hearted or those who don't have the distance and the accuracy. There are also a couple of long Par 4s and par 5s that are hard to reach without distance or accuracy - a nice, long drive, a straight hybrid, and a damn accurate 3rd shot. That, and being able to putt off keropok greens designed by sadists Razz

But if I have to choose one or the other, I'd take the middle of fairway any day over long and hazardous... Wink

If I had a choice, i'd practice till I was long and accurate.

Well, sometimes not everybody has the luxury of practice times... Wink

Then it's not fair to expect to be long OR accurate OR consistent, right? You get out of golf what you put into golf. Smile

Let's be fair -- i can't say I have no time to practice or play, then expect to shoot a good score, right? If that was the case, everyone would be a single handicapper or a pro. Pros don't get to where they are without putting in hours at the range, on the course, constantly learning, reinforcing, and evolving.

Some people are naturally long, others are naturally accurate.

Someone pointed out something about my height -- yes, that allows me to swing easy and get distance, but being tall also means that I face a different set of problems (i.e higher CG, hence harder to maintain stability through the swing without putting in some gym time or core training), which prevent me from getting easy distance. And while I don't have the time or energy to go to the range every night, I do make it a point to get some games going in the weekends, along with post-round practice.

Yes, one could argue that one has family commitments, work commitments, and whatever else that prevents one from playing or practicing, but under those circumstances, one should not expect to improve as a golfer and hence the discussion of whether being long or accurate is better, because without practice or game time, one cannot be either long nor accurate CONSISTENTLY
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:44 pm

slinger wrote:
how i wish i can be as committed as some of the folks here.....

then maybe i can win as many titles as mloy.... bounce

kns, your swing is a work of art lor. Smooth, powerful and committed. You're the joker I'm modelling my swing after right now, down to the swing path. I try to slug it the way you do but end up losing accuracy cos my swing plane gets all messed up. So now I can't rush things, just need to ingrain the muscle memory, then slowly add power.
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:44 pm

ghoonk wrote:
Yarra wrote:
ghoonk wrote:
Yarra wrote:
ghoonk wrote:
in short, both are important.

To use an example like yours:

JGE's courses have a number of Par 3s that are around 200 yards. Not for the faint-hearted or those who don't have the distance and the accuracy. There are also a couple of long Par 4s and par 5s that are hard to reach without distance or accuracy - a nice, long drive, a straight hybrid, and a damn accurate 3rd shot. That, and being able to putt off keropok greens designed by sadists Razz

But if I have to choose one or the other, I'd take the middle of fairway any day over long and hazardous... Wink

If I had a choice, i'd practice till I was long and accurate.

Well, sometimes not everybody has the luxury of practice times... Wink

Then it's not fair to expect to be long OR accurate OR consistent, right? You get out of golf what you put into golf. Smile

Let's be fair -- i can't say I have no time to practice or play, then expect to shoot a good score, right? If that was the case, everyone would be a single handicapper or a pro. Pros don't get to where they are without putting in hours at the range, on the course, constantly learning, reinforcing, and evolving.

Some people are naturally long, others are naturally accurate.

Someone pointed out something about my height -- yes, that allows me to swing easy and get distance, but being tall also means that I face a different set of problems (i.e higher CG, hence harder to maintain stability through the swing without putting in some gym time or core training), which prevent me from getting easy distance. And while I don't have the time or energy to go to the range every night, I do make it a point to get some games going in the weekends, along with post-round practice.

Yes, one could argue that one has family commitments, work commitments, and whatever else that prevents one from playing or practicing, but under those circumstances, one should not expect to improve as a golfer and hence the discussion of whether being long or accurate is better, because without practice or game time, one cannot be either long nor accurate CONSISTENTLY

k, u are right.....

which is why i need strokes...... Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:47 pm

ghoonk wrote:
slinger wrote:
how i wish i can be as committed as some of the folks here.....

then maybe i can win as many titles as mloy.... bounce

kns, your swing is a work of art lor. Smooth, powerful and committed. You're the joker I'm modelling my swing after right now, down to the swing path. I try to slug it the way you do but end up losing accuracy cos my swing plane gets all messed up. So now I can't rush things, just need to ingrain the muscle memory, then slowly add power.


u want me to buy kopi for u when u come back....just say only

but dun anyhow write what work of art hor..... Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:53 pm

no, seriously. When my coach / fitter was working on my swing revamp, i noticed the shoulder turn, the clubface / shaft path in the mirror and i swear your swing was the first thing that came to my mind.

I haven't been consistent enough to crank it the way you do, but I'm told that will come with time. Oddly enough, I've also been told that most social golfers fire a 6i 150 yards, so i've above social golfer distance but under pro average (by quite a lot, i may add). Right now, my game isn't improving also due to the fact that I am not getting along with my fairway woods Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:55 pm

just chiming in here.. watching the pros play at Handa with both distance and accuracy.

Karmis is long for his size.. i think he looks like 1.67m tall by my estimate.
but he is still not as long as some of the other guys.
but he uses his distance when he can and accuracy when he is better served.

in the final round, some holes where Kruger tried to take advantage of his length to gamble for an eagle or birdie, he succeeded, even Chan YS who is taller and bigger, did that too to his advantage, but most of the time, that extra distance, even though they are dam straight and accurate, they cannot stop the ball on the green. and the occasional trouble they get when they land outside the green cost them 1 or even 2 strokes to get to the hole.

Karmis was not playing very well on the last day, but he grinded it out, play conservative and take gambles when he can afford it. better to get on the green in 3 and land the ball for a short little putt.

so how do we take away what I saw to our feeble game?

i learnt that course management at their standard is WAY WAY different than what we think we do for course management for our game. Course management is much more important for our game because we are less accurate and shorter than the pros. out short game is also worse.

That is why accuracy is at a premium to distance for people who have less distance.
if you have distance, by all means bomb and gouge, but your short game better be good because of the inability to stop the ball on the green sometimes.
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:04 pm

nowadays, i tend to launch my drives a little too high for my liking but it is consistent.... which i will take anyday over distance...

my capt warn me no swing change after the BT league is over....hianz, have to wait another month before i go see my coach....

there are many ppl here with better swing than me.... heng heng i hit well on u are around

nevermind, i better buy kopi for u.....pls hor, dun give me a reputation hor
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:16 pm

yup. very very true.

In many cases, we attack greens with fairway woods. Some of us launch a fairway shot with low trajectory and get distance from good roll, but we sometimes forget that pros can control their trajectory - you might have noticed that some of them launch higher to a smaller green so that the ball lands directly rather than on a low trajectory that could see it run off the green.

Beginners like me havent achieved that level of control yet. I am happy to be able to hit CONSISTENT yardages, strike the ball CONSISTENTLY, which translates to being able to pick the right club and use the right strategy. These days, I'm practicing a lot more with my short irons so that I can at least get close enough if i miss GIR so I have a decent chance at par. This is consistent with your observation that Karmis makes up for lower GIR percentages by getting in close and letting his short game do the work. Even so, that takes a good amount of practice

You want to see someone who's long? Go play a round with slinger and alvin (the hum sup one, not alvinlee) -- those two have different heights but BOMB the ball like you wouldn't believe.

eiji - i guess there's merit to your argument as well. If i started the game by cranking out shots, at some point I would have probably learned to control the swing better. I guess it comes down to personal style - i tend to be more conservative, preferring to keep the ball in play and let distances be covered by my equipment. if i need to cover 200 yards, I can either pull out a hybrid or my 5w, where monsters like slinger and alvin7379 use a 5i or something. It just means that I need to practice more with my longer clubs in order to make up for length that some people have. End of day, I think it comes down to one's style of play -- I know I can't slug it the way these young punks do, but all i can do is practice more and make up in other areas Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:21 pm

slinger wrote:
nowadays, i tend to launch my drives a little too high for my liking but it is consistent.... which i will take anyday over distance...

my capt warn me no swing change after the BT league is over....hianz, have to wait another month before i go see my coach....

there are many ppl here with better swing than me.... heng heng i hit well on u are around

nevermind, i better buy kopi for u.....pls hor, dun give me a reputation hor

high launching drives work for and against you depending on the shape of your shot and the wind conditions. You can still hit a draw into the wind and it won't run out of gas the way my straight/fade shots do in the same conditions. I think I should be buying you kopi instead cos of what I learn from watching you play.

seebayho also has a very good swing, with many similarities to yours, and the both of you have good course management skills, common among experienced players. Your yardages are also consistent, which helps more than accuracy and distance because there's nothing like being able to walk up to a ball, and pull a club knowing fully well that you WILL cover that distance, not longer, not shorter with every shot, and missing only left or right, which means you can fall back on your short game to save pars

I think my swing is probably a more mature version of Duval's, and if he keeps up what he's doing, he will probably end up with my kind of game -- easy swing, course manage, and go for consistency.
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:25 pm

slinger wrote:
nowadays, i tend to launch my drives a little too high for my liking but it is consistent.... which i will take anyday over distance...

my capt warn me no swing change after the BT league is over....hianz, have to wait another month before i go see my coach....

there are many ppl here with better swing than me.... heng heng i hit well on u are around

nevermind, i better buy kopi for u.....pls hor, dun give me a reputation hor

Sounds like you'll need to give me 18 strokes!
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:31 pm

slinger wrote:


but dun anyhow write what work of art hor..... Suspect

Neh... your work of art right beside your every post mah... who say no have? geek
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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:37 pm

Distance without some form of control isn't gonna get you very far(pun)
but
Control without distance won't give you much birdie chances(unless you can consistently land a FW, long iron on the green and hold it there)


I would rather be playing like Dustin Johnson as oppose to Zach Johnson, Dustin is 60-70yards ahead of Zach, takes out a 8,9iron or wedge for his approach vs Zach who has to take out a 5-7iron. But alas, i don't have Dustin's physique so I think i need to be practicing my hybrid and 4 wood more and just be happy with bogeys

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PostSubject: Re: Which is more important Dispersion or distant?    Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:38 pm

Birdman wrote:
slinger wrote:


but dun anyhow write what work of art hor..... Suspect

Neh... your work of art right beside your every post mah... who say no have? geek


ciao lang kong ciao wei..... but i like

TCSS is my forte.....
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