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 Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?

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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:51 am

I've been reading a little bit about TW's attitude on the last day of the PGA Championship and found that people had commented that Tiger was quite arrogant, not to mention unprofessional in the way he played with Yang. 2 incidents mentioned were:

1. Tiger stepping on Yang's putting line at the 18th when he was preparing for his chip from the green-side rough.
2. Tiger walking off the green after he putts but before Yang putts out his hole.

I'll need to go back and see the recording again but I do recall incident #2. At that point, I felt it odd that Tiger had walked off while Yang hadn't finished the hole. I guess Tiger just wanted to press ahead.

That said, if the above are true (and Tiger has been for his arrogance), then I don't feel so bad for his loss at the PGA Championship. In fact, I think that this is a good reality check for him and other pros that there are good golfers out there who you may not have heard much of but can kick b*tt nonetheless. Sometimes, people get too comfortable at top positions that they fail to recognize the people around them.

OR... was Tiger simply frustrated with himself and was not conscious of his actions?
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:59 am

Although he is my idol...

but no matter how frustrated is one, he should still be conscious of his own actions and considerate to his flight mate.


If he stepped on the putting line, isn't that a penalty stroke?
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:01 am

i saw incident 1 and 2.

he was not just frustrated with himself but he simply did not execute according to his game plan. with harrington he can hit shorter and land on the green first to give his opponent pressure. this is sometimes as the Nick Faldo syndrome, but against Yang, his opponent is shorter off the tee so the pressure was on him instead.

i think the chip in eagle just broke his confidence and as the game progresses, he got more frustrated because it was his tournament to lose while Yang just had to take it in his stride as history was already made by appearing in the final twosome.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:02 am

I think the #2 is dicey...many times, I also noted, that PGA golfers will hang around at the fringe nearest to the next hole...and the second his flight mate putt , he quickly move on......As for #1, very surprising if that did happen as what we all know, TW was groomed by his Dad...(Green Beret)..where discipline is non negotiable.

My personal take: If want to be arrogant...thats fine with me, just make sure one has the game to back it up. But no etiquitte is another matter all together.

....Just me 'DS'
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:04 am

I didn't see #1 but I saw #2.

Not the first time he's done that before, and if I recall correctly, the last time he did it he was also not playing well and was frustrated.

If I played like him, (relative to his and my own level of play), I would be really angry with myself.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:19 am

I think we are all guilty of those actions every now and then but being a professional golfer, I expected more from TW. I agree with DGMan that Yang's chip-in eagle broke TW's concentration but as a professional, he should quickly come back. He had his chances but didn't take advantage.

Regardless, he should not behave like this on the course. Playing golf as the world's best is important but behaving like the world's best is just as important.

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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:43 am

He is human after all.

Already proven that he is not a God.


Humans also not perfect.


so cut him some slack lah....
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:48 am

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
He is human after all.

Already proven that he is not a God.


Humans also not perfect.


so cut him some slack lah....

No one said that TW must be perfect. But try to accord your competitor some respect and professional courtesy. That's all I'm saying Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:56 am

The clock is the reason why golfers hang near the fringe nearest to the next hole after they finish their putt. I remember this 'strategy was taught' at the competition prep class by my kid's coach. You won't want to be warned of slow play and be put under the clock.

I always feel it makes the players look discourteous by walking away before their flight mate completes their hole-out ; but under competition pressure, i guessed they have to go with the flow and avoid any unnecessary warning/penalty.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:06 am

This is an excerpt from the Rules of Golf, albeit in Section I – Etiquette; Behaviour on the Course:

Rules of Golf wrote:
On the Putting Green
On the putting green, players should not stand on another player’s
line of putt or, when he is making a stroke, cast a shadow over his
line of putt.
Players should remain on or close to the putting green until all other
players in the group have holed out.

Given this, would a player be warned/penalized if he/she followed proper golf etiquette and behaviour but may arguably be slow?

It's also odd to hear that Tiger would want to avoid such warnings for slow play when he is quite fond of taking his time when it favors him.

Again, please let me stress that I'm not against Tiger. I'm just asking whether Tiger's actions on the last day were a result of arrogance or frustration? If the former, then he should learn to be more sportsmanlike. If the latter, then I suppose it's more forgivable.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:06 pm

Well I would think that no one would ever have the answer except TW himself.

Given the benefit of doubt and the respect for his establishment in golf game, i would chose the latter.

just my opinion lah...hehe
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:18 pm

My question is did we see a lot of good putting in this tournament? Why not?

I believed Tiger was frustrated for not making any of his signature putting which is his bread and butter. 'Poor' putting too was the common denominator with Vijay Singh and Phil Mickleson.


Regarding 'arrogance', IMHO, I think it was a 2-way street. Yang was not in awe and his disrespect was subtle (gamesmanship?) perhaps that irked Tiger . I know some Korean golfers can be like that with other Asian golfers (as we know Tiger is half Asian). Perhaps he does not believe in the media hyperbole that Tiger cannot be beaten (after leading in 54 rounds in Majors Tiger was unbeaten 14/14) coupled with the fact that he had the psychological advantage of defeating him in 2006. This is based on my deduction (MHO) of what he said at post interview regarding his 'small tournament wins'.

Tiger was leading before the 14th hole and he probably thought he was going to win easily with the remaining holes. He had a disdain look thats why he had his back towards Yang but....when he saw the chipped shot went in for an eagle. Shocked pale silent Well the rest is history.

I think the chipped in eagle was the defining moment and will be a turning point for many Asian golfers and Asian tournaments positively. Its not the language issue but the fear of Asian golfers (especially Asian females) that are giving 'concern' affraid

This is my take and 2 cents worth

Regarding the two incidents well like MC says


mUAr_cHEe wrote:
He is human after all.

Already proven that he is not a God.


Humans also not perfect.


so cut him some slack lah....


Last edited by supra on Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:20 pm

TW can get away with murder! lol

but i thought he was a little rude by storming off before yang finished the hole but i guess he was just so determined to get to the next and catch up with him. and did you guys see him smile when yang birdied the last hole to win? now was that a wry grin, an enjoy-it-while-you-can kinda smile, or was he really happy for yang? hmmm
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:24 pm

Well, in any event it doesn't really matter.
He got creamed by the world's number 110 seeded player.

On a different note, there is an expect of intimidation in there isn't there? And needless to say, the global expectations of Tiger are horrendous. Golfers and non-golfers watched him. Can you imagine the pressure on him?
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:27 pm

totally agree with G man...

I guess now he would be extremely angry with himself...

hehe
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:30 pm

TV is like a magnifying glass.....

and the more famous you are, the more you multiply the magnifying factor....
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:31 pm

G_Man wrote:
Well, in any event it doesn't really matter.
He got creamed by the world's number 110 seeded player.

On a different note, there is an expect of intimidation in there isn't there? And needless to say, the global expectations of Tiger are horrendous. Golfers and non-golfers watched him. Can you imagine the pressure on him?

Come Oct 5 Presidents Cup, maybe we will be so lucky to see Yang-Tiger rematch mano a mano. I tell you the ratings will be skyhigh. Who do you think will be under more pressure?
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:33 pm

supra wrote:
G_Man wrote:
Well, in any event it doesn't really matter.
He got creamed by the world's number 110 seeded player.

On a different note, there is an expect of intimidation in there isn't there? And needless to say, the global expectations of Tiger are horrendous. Golfers and non-golfers watched him. Can you imagine the pressure on him?

Come Oct 5 Presidents Cup, maybe we will be so lucky to see Yang-Tiger rematch mano a mano. I tell you the ratings will be skyhigh. Who do you think will be under more pressure?

I think TW. To be the world's best and beaten thrice by the same player? Game on! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:37 pm

Technospaz wrote:
supra wrote:
G_Man wrote:
Well, in any event it doesn't really matter.
He got creamed by the world's number 110 seeded player.

On a different note, there is an expect of intimidation in there isn't there? And needless to say, the global expectations of Tiger are horrendous. Golfers and non-golfers watched him. Can you imagine the pressure on him?

Come Oct 5 Presidents Cup, maybe we will be so lucky to see Yang-Tiger rematch mano a mano. I tell you the ratings will be skyhigh. Who do you think will be under more pressure?

I think TW. To be the world's best and beaten thrice by the same player? Game on! Smile

Yup. I predict he is going to be Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:02 am

check this article out:

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1917247,00.html


OK....I am going back to my 'french speaking'
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:04 am

Duval_S wrote:
check this article out:

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1917247,00.html


OK....I am going back to my 'french speaking'

When your kids who watch the Golf Channel start cussing because they heard your idol, Tiger Woods, do so... then we can revisit this issue Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:16 am

Actually the irony is...my P2 kid already did.....tried as I may but cant stop him....so bo pian, use golf analogy....if you want to speak 'french'.....stay within the 'fairway' ie school bus and school......Cannot 'OB' outside of school or bus....

finger crossed......ohm ohm ohm
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:43 am

Duval_S wrote:
check this article out:

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1917247,00.html


OK....I am going back to my 'french speaking'
I'm going to pick up hokkien. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Was Tiger arrogant or frustrated?   Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:19 am

Ssquirrel wrote:
Duval_S wrote:
check this article out:

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1917247,00.html


OK....I am going back to my 'french speaking'
I'm going to pick up hokkien. Smile

I thought you teach hokkien Smile
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