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 How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing

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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:56 am

Hi All
This article appeared in the Straits Times yesterday and I am happy but at the same time concerned about the outcome of this. Hope to hear your thoughts



My opinion which may be biased is that this can only do more harm than good for these 2 champions. Marc is trained by my colleague Chris Marriott and Edgar is trained by myself. The boys have dominated junior and amateur golf in this region the past 2 years. From humble beginnings a couple of years ago when they both were no more than average left sided kids, they have become winners of many tournaments under the training of the Right sided swing.
Although it is an opportunity to learn more under a reputable coach such as Leadbetter, I can not help to think that left sided vs right sided is the complete opposite and I am worried that their games may suffer in the long run. Afterall, it was RSS that got them to where thay are now
I use the example of Peter Lonard who was once ranked in the top 40 players in the world under the right side swing teaching. He switched to Leadbetter and plummeted to a player who lost his PGA Tour card and is no longer even competing as a pro golfer, basically retired. He had won 2 PGA Tour events prior to the switch, now he can not make a cut.
I am not Knocking Leadbetter and his teaching as he has many great players with many victories but his philosophy is completely opposite of mine.
I believe that these 2 boys are the best that Singapore has produced in recent time. Their achievements are almost Tiger like so I just hope that this month of training for $30000 each is well spent......They paid basically nothing in comparison to get where they are now.
I hope for the boys sake that I am wrong and they become even better players but I have my doubts.
We have many other students from Leadbetter that have become right sided that have now become champions . Nicholas Smits is a great example. Google him and you will see
Time will tell I guess.
Hope for some replies as I feel although I may be loosing my star pupil, I hope for him that he proves me wrong.

Regards

Paul

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b.b.carabanesis
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:13 am

Paul,

I would believe that you would have more faith in yourself, considering that you are an accomplished coach. Isn't it up to the boy's individual choices as well whether if they want to take up that overseas training offer as well?

There has been many similar stories as well about how one's 'star student' is poached by another pro. There are also stories like that in this golf forum! I really would not think that you would be so petty and concerned about this. I am still shocked.

If you are concerned about the boys' future, it is up to their own personal choice and lets hope that they both gave this a lot of thought before they decided on the above. This may be part of your training with them earlier? I am assuming that you did teach the boys more than a repeatable golf swing.

If you are concerned about your own reputation, I am in no position to comment.

Good Day.
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:29 am

I think that is very much how life is.....the brand and the exposure is always what the big boys can give......

Chin up.......bro......if anything, may all know that the boys first started with you.

For all the things I had achieved today be it thru work or thru mentorship (regardless of how big or small they are), I always remember that a big reason is because I was brought to this world by my mummy and daddy................there you go.
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watermyforrest
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:03 am

It's only 4 weeks lah... Surely not enough time to tweak one's swing, considering that they have to learn the other aspect of the game. Furthermore they will benefit from the exposure of highly competitive students there.
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golf_snowman
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:10 am

Hi Pual

I can totally understand how you felt, as i have been thru the similar situation, just to share with you....

I used to be the mentor for some of the engineers under my dept who have excel in their performance, however when they decided to leave the company, I felt exactly the same way you feel now.

I once have a good mentor years ago who told me that a good mentor will always wanted to do things that are good for their students, even though if you need to let them go, as long as it's good for them. The thing is, how do we know, by letting them go, is good for them ? In fact, we will never know at that point of time, but we can only hope...

I told my engineers, any point of time, if you have decided to come back, just let me know, my door is always open for them.
From time to time, we keep in contact, which i think is a good way to just find out how they are doing, and give them advise should they need any.

In summary, there are things that are beyond our control and we can only hope for the best.
Whether it ends up good or bad, time will tell and should they decided to come back, it will prove once again how good and important you are as a mentor.

snowman
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:19 am

it's inevitable bro...even butch harmon lost his star pupil after helping him won majors!

But anyways, it's only a month and they will be back to your guidance right? If any setback, it wont be permanent setback. They're still yours to teach for 3-4 years before they go compete on the NCAA.

You remind me of Nemo's father Laughing
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watermyforrest
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:49 am

Bro, for a moment I thought you meant bro Nemo's father.
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:06 am

Paul, just think of it as they are going to get exposed to courses that are hardly achievable in our climate here. i know edgar and marc and although they are young boys, they do know what is good or bad for them.

u took so many years to groom them to what they are today and one month can not do much to a golfe with strong fundamentals. however, i do hope that this one month will do good in the mental aspect of the game. lots of boys like them lack the mental part which is ever that inmportant in the game of golf.

i can already picture them kicking some of the leadbetter academy's students. come on bro... have faith, like i said, i think u are one of the most dedicated coaches i have seen and both of them knows it.
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JonL_TK
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:20 am

Paul... I know a couple of local Brothers attending the IMG Academy...
Not sure if Marc & Edgar knows them but I can pass u the contact and see if the boys know each other!

I think the 4 of them together is be havoc!
Nonetheless, 4 weeks is a short time!

Cheer Up and go down a couple of Tigers
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and68low
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:25 am

Hi Paul, let me just simply put it, "It was your dedication and good coaching in the first instance that brought them to that level" Be proud of it ! and nothing can change that ! Its only natural to feel the way you are feeling !( because you are a responsible and dedicated coach )

Cheers mate !
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weaponx
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:39 am

i agree with duffader.. look at it as an exposure for the boys, exposure to different course designs as well as stronger competition, im sure that will improve their course management and mental strength...

as for swing technique, i do feel for you as i think they might try to change it even if its only a short 4 weeks, so you can only hope that he does the sensible thing and realise which swing brought him the results that got him to where he is as a golfer today.... as and68low puts it, "It was your dedication and good coaching in the first instance that brought them to that level"

in any case, if the decision has been made to go, i think you should go with the glass half full mentality and hopefully get a win win situation - stronger mentality+same RSS swing!! cheers
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DTKS
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:26 am

well, i think it is a good exposure for the boys to see the difference between themselves and the others in florida. They will realise where is their standard as compare to the US or at least florida.

it is always good to see around the world...

That's just my opinion.

Stay cool!
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:49 am

Oftentimes, you have to let them go to let them grow. That's life. What you've taught them, Paul, will always remain. Nothing can take that away from them. What they choose to make of it is their discretion.

That said, it's only a short stint in the US for these boys. They can learn so much outside of the swing technique and I think that's what we should be focused on.

Ultimately, it's an amazing opportunity which they would never have received if not for your guidance and coaching.


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and68low
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:05 pm

Last words ! You wont know how appreciate "Good" until you have tasted "Bad"
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eiji
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:20 pm

"You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him find it within himself." - Galielo Galilei

"Teachers should guide without dictating, and participate without dominating." - C.B. Neblette



I am sure those two students will

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longster
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:21 pm

left side right side.. just let them go with an open mind
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:02 pm

Thanks for all your commenst and feedback.
I can see the positives that will come from this, i.e exposure to different courses, conditions, better players.
It does not make sense to me however that the SSP would send them here without our consultation. Why Leadbetter, why not Gary Edwin academy in Australia. As for the costs involved, this could be spent better in other ways. The SSP golf budget is always a problem and this seems to be a waste of much needed funds for the other 18 golfers in the program

As for what the Leadbetter guys will do with their swings, I am 100% sure that they are going to change their swings. They will want more on the back foot, more shifting, more turning etc.
I am sure if a player came to spend a month with me, I would also want to make changes to their swing, otherwise what is the point and what else to do for 1 whole month??

Another concern I have is that Edgar has qualified to play in the Final of the Faldo Series at Mission Hills in China. This is just days after he is due to leave the US. I am scheduled to meet him in China to prepare for the tournament. What will I encounter when I get there as far as his swing is concerned and is this really the ideal preparation for such a big event?

We have a meeting with the SSP next week to discuss this. After researching the Leadbetter academy, I am hoping my boys do not end up on the scrap heap and loose their way as was the case with other child prodigies such as Ty Tryon, Charles Howell and Sean O'hair who attended this academy. Sean has managed to find his game again under a new coach.

I put myself in the boys shoes and when I was that age, if a carrot was dangled in front of my face such as a month playing golf in the US, I would be the first on the plane regardless of the coach/academy at the other end. They are just 15 remember.

It is a real slap in the face for the work we have done with these boys to read such things in the paper. Many of my friends and students have questioned this decision.

A month is a long time in golf and as a golfer who has been left side then right side, I am sure this is going to end badly.
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JonL_TK
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:54 pm

Well Paul... Maybe the SSP is putting their eggs all in 2 baskets (in this case) and since DL is supposedly world renown coach!!!

Like i said, there are currently 2 brothers formerly from the SSP also at the IMG Academy right now...
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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:02 am

...they are planning to use IMG for future golfers....most likely this the trial group, to try and get a breakthrough in SG golf....golfer is a sport where an Asian can win the masters, no reason why it cannot be a Singaporean..someone have to take the first step and face the good and bad from it.

its a bold step, may prove disastrous, but its worth the risk as the gain can be a lot (confidence is king..just look at TW)...if not these guys, will be another local talent....




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sjack73
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:04 pm

I know where Paul is coming from. I took a couple of lessons under RSS, and the swing concept is really different compared to the traditional swing. Even my playing partners are always trying to fix my swing when I have my bad days. So I can imagine when those kids go over to the DL academy, and end up being confused over the swing. I am not sure how that can be good for them.

Anyways, our sports council always have ideas of their own.
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aimscratch
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:33 am

tough luck man. but its good exposure for them to see other talents.
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:53 am

Yo Paul, great news, Marc won some tourney at the academy which just ended today!!! You and Chris should be proud...
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Mon May 16, 2011 12:08 pm

As suspected, the boys came back from the US with their games in worse shape than when they left. Edgars tournament results have been well below his standards the past couple of months.
After a solid 2 hour session on Thursday, we ironed out some problems particularly with the short game.
The boy validated the work we done on the weekend by shooting 67 and 68 around Warren GC. He's off to the Malaysian amateur this week so hopefully the US nightmare is behind us.

"Waste of time and waste of money" was his summary of the trip
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Mon May 16, 2011 3:41 pm

Right_sided_coach wrote:
As suspected, the boys came back from the US with their games in worse shape than when they left. Edgars tournament results have been well below his standards the past couple of months.
After a solid 2 hour session on Thursday, we ironed out some problems particularly with the short game.
The boy validated the work we done on the weekend by shooting 67 and 68 around Warren GC. He's off to the Malaysian amateur this week so hopefully the US nightmare is behind us.

"Waste of time and waste of money" was his summary of the trip

Time and money are wasted on youth.

There's a lot more to the journey than the destination. I'm sure he'll appreciate his time there but that may be years from now.

In any event, I'm sure he's happy to be back. You've got him under your wings again and it's time to rock'n'roll.

Speaking of which, I played close to 67 on Sunday... albeit after 9 holes. I should get coaching.

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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Mon May 16, 2011 5:35 pm

having been there and see how crap the US system is, he will be full of confidence in playing in the PGA in the near future.

Confidence is priceless....just ask Sergio

Also know for sure the current swing type is best for u is also priceless...just ask Tiger Woods

all in all, $$ well spent.
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PostSubject: Re: How should I feel....is this a good or bad thing   Today at 3:56 pm

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