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 Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le

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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:01 pm

looking fwd to catch paddy but found this !!!



Quote:
Padraig Harrington has been disqualified from the Abu Dhabi HSBC Championship after being called to review an incident in his opening 65.

The three-time major winner, one off the lead overnight in Abu Dhabi, did not tee off in the second round after his hand brushed the back of his ball as he replaced it in front of his marker on the seventh green.

Andy McFee, European Tour Senior Referee, explained the ruling in a statement which said: “Harrington was disqualified for a breach of Rule 6-6d for signing for the wrong score on hole seven during the first round of the Abu Dhabi HSBC Golf Championship.

“On the seventh green, Padraig replaced his ball and as he began to remove his marker, his finger was seen on TV to brush the ball, causing it to move. The movement of the ball during the specific act of replacing it is covered by Rule 20-3a and there is no penalty to this movement, but the ball must be replaced
.

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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:26 pm

Golf is one of those strange games that is so high tech in equipment and instruction, yet archaic in its tradition and rules. Yet it is still a wonderful game for all its many frustrations, it takes but that one fleeting moment when it all comes together for a fantastic shot to make us return and endure further frustration and self torture.

The real bugbear here is that of TV. Is there any other sport in the world where a viewer can call in to report an infraction of the rules? And officials who themselves aren't doing a good enough job to be eagle-eyed, can then use TV footage to call a ruling long after the infraction has passed, or in some cases, even after the tournament is over. I can only think of this happening in Miss Universe, and this is no beauty pageant where we are playing for world peace.

It is unfair too those leading tournaments too, in that the cameras are more often on the leaders, and less on those not contending, meaning less chances of viewers spotting a rules infraction by a pro not leading, and added pressure on tournament leaders not to break a rule. Is it any wonder then, that we see televised situations where it takes forever to come to a rules decision and play grinds to a halt in already increasingly slow tournament rounds?

Remember Dustin Johnson at Whistling Straits and the 'bunker' incident? There was a rules official there who was useless, and it was TV that did him in. And Michelle Wie grounding her club in a hazard? No official saw it and again it was TV that did a pro in.

Imagine if this is allowed in any sport televised?

What's done is done, and it should not be reversed by TV viewers. Like in football, referees decision stands, no matter what the TV replay shows.


Last edited by Birdman on Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:40 pm

i recall the fevered shouts of "referee bodoh" in kallang..
TV refereeing for football like the world cup would be something i think more relevant.
can you remember the controversial "hand of god"?
numerous tackles and penalties?

oh well.. all the frustrations.. anguish.. and stupid refereeing..
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:56 pm

In fast paced sports, TV refereeing does make some sense of course, all in the name of the correct decision.

But where does it stop? Already, it changes the way the game has been played since it was invented, where it's always been the referee's decision being final. Technology is always improving, what next will we allow into the game or sport to catch infractions?

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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:14 pm

it has to make economic sense and speed and clarity.
i think the world cup discussed using it as a finals only TV refreeing and only as a 4th referee fall back.. might have been ditched already..

its not some school yard or national football game..
heck even the NBA don't use TV refereeing.
when there are millions of eyes on live TV watching the game, and viewers literally going out to riot if the refereeing was bad and cost them their country's bid for the world cup.. i think it really makes sense to use it to prevent people really venting frustraitions because they saw the foul on TV, including commentation and replay, and yet the refereeing insists on sticking his head in the dirt..

injustice, stupidity, inflexibility of the organisers and lost opportunity to better the sport..
so many things to think about.. oh well..
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:38 pm

Then instead of TV refereeing, let's take tech all the way with chip embedded balls and laser boundaries. No room for dispute there right? Very Happy

Viewers rioting cannot be blamed on refereeing la bro, that one blame bad upbringing. ROFL
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:42 pm

well you know those soccer hooligans..

laser boundaries? cost prohibitive.
chip embedded balls.. hmm.. possible..
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alangolf
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:31 am

Golf is a game with clear rules. Do we want it to be up to interpretation like 'should be penalty', 'was tackle from behind' where everyone got own opinion? Since it has clear rules, there's nothing wrong with DQ from any infringement if the rules state so. It doesn't matter if it's spotted by TV, the crowd, playing partner, whoever. An infringement is an infringement and should be penalised accordingly. It is not about whether the action has given the player any advantage, it is about has any rules been bridge. The former will give rise to endless debate.

The top pros never complain (openingly at least) about the DQ/penalty regardless of how insignificant the infringement might be. Either because they want their win to be legit or they know the infringement is undebatable. They're world top pros, and perfection is expected of them. Ignorance is no excuse.
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:55 am

alangolf wrote:
Golf is a game with clear rules. Do we want it to be up to interpretation like 'should be penalty', 'was tackle from behind' where everyone got own opinion? Since it has clear rules, there's nothing wrong with DQ from any infringement if the rules state so. It doesn't matter if it's spotted by TV, the crowd, playing partner, whoever. An infringement is an infringement and should be penalised accordingly. It is not about whether the action has given the player any advantage, it is about has any rules been bridge. The former will give rise to endless debate.

The top pros never complain (openingly at least) about the DQ/penalty regardless of how insignificant the infringement might be. Either because they want their win to be legit or they know the infringement is undebatable. They're world top pros, and perfection is expected of them. Ignorance is no excuse.


hahah.. alan, you have lost the point of the discussion..
it was never about questioning the rules..
its about TV refereeing.. pls re-read the whole thread..

however, having said that, what you say is exactly my point regarding TV refereeing on say football. an infringemnet is an infringment. only that the ref did not catch it and won't call it. if he did not, then the player gets the advantage to play on and score a goal even.

in golf tournaments, if there was no TV coverage because it is not a big enough event, will padraig's infringement be caught if he himself did not think he broke any rule? Now that is what this discussion is about.
its also about expediency. wait till the end of the game then your playing partner waits for you to submit the wrong score and DQ you.. hahahah


Last edited by mizzy on Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:00 am

another point to note alan.. golf does not have clear rules.. in Dustin's case, what is a sand bunker? any patch where grass does not grow?
heck, go ask every golfer you meet to see how clear they think the rules are.

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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:02 am

Very soon, we'll need to use robots to mark, move and place our golf balls. This is a stupid rule and while I appreciate that technology has given us greater visibility with ultra-zoom lenses, this is absurd.

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clarencekim
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:03 am

Birdman--Xaga Ng says Hi. He was MC at a golf event I covered for a local steel industry trade magazine at Laguna Natl CC yesterday.

UR right, the new Laguna World Classic Course looks very dificult from ALL the tees! Hilly terrian, large sand/waste area and menacing water.

CU 7 Feb at OCC--let's hope it does not rain.

Smile

CK
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:23 am

To me......viewer should stay to what viewers do best......just VIEW !!!!


this is not macam road accident, where by police put poster to ask for witness....if its such, that the bloody Golf body should do so and only upon that, should viewers do that.


NB....I think we take the 911 bombing to golf course liao.....
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alangolf
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:54 am

mizzy wrote:

hahah.. alan, you have lost the point of the discussion..
it was never about questioning the rules..
its about TV refereeing.. pls re-read the whole thread..
....
in golf tournaments, if there was no TV coverage because it is not a big enough event, will padraig's infringement be caught if he himself did not think he broke any rule? Now that is what this discussion is about.
its also about expediency. wait till the end of the game then your playing partner waits for you to submit the wrong score and DQ you.. hahahah


1) on TV referees.
If there's infringement, doesn't matter it's from couch potatoes who knows nothing else about golf except that rule. So TV refereeing is acceptable. That's my point. Till another rule is inked that TV refereeing is banned or some form of boundaries is laid, there's nothing to stop it. Cos there's no such rule, organiser, PGA, player (whoever makes the decision) has got no choice.
I do feel sorry for the players DQ 'unnecessarily'. But there's nothing except offer condolences.

2) If no TV coverage.
If nobody knows, of course it's never an issue.

3) on expediency.
If we go down this road, the debates will be endless.

Beer
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alangolf
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:05 pm

mizzy wrote:
another point to note alan.. golf does not have clear rules.. in Dustin's case, what is a sand bunker? any patch where grass does not grow?
heck, go ask every golfer you meet to see how clear they think the rules are.



I'm not too sure about this case...
But i think there should be a course layout given to players marking hazards whatsoever. While practising, players/caddie can survey the course accordingly. If this bunker (if you can call it one silent ) is so unnoticable, the more they should take note.

These pros are at the pinnacle of golf game. The expectations and demands are just so high of them.
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