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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:44 pm

tronos wrote:
It's the tv audience that pointed it out...not make the call. Since golf is one of a few game that last many days..technically the ruling is made during the game. It's the same as the official requesting the tv station to replay for him to see if a ball landed out of bounds after asking a photographer nearby if he saw where the ball landed. I am more against a photographer telling and influencing an official on where the ball landed than a tv audience tipping off an official who then check it on replays and make a decision based on actual evidence.

However in the future I can forsee tv audience feedback displayed inthe stadium on referee calls or goal line calls

Sorry bro, got to correct you here. What lasts for four days is the tournament, not the game. The game, or more properly, the round, lasts only 18 holes. After which the round (game) is over and the scorecard checked, signed, and handed in. It's four rounds of golf that make one tournament.

If Padraig was called out during the round before he finished the 18th hole, it would have just been penalty strokes, the fact it was after the completion of the 1st round with a scorecard signed and handed in, he was DQd for signing a wrong scorecard.
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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:45 pm

Hopefully this does not hinder Padraig's comeback. He is one guy that needs a break. The other guy is sergio.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:50 pm

tronos wrote:

The sad thing is the player knew he touched the ball but probably forgot at that very moment, the rule that he can reposition the ball with no penalty, and tried to 'get away with it'. The reason that he thought the ball did not move is a bit weak. If he knew the rules he would just go thru the motion of repositioning the ball back to the original position to avoid any potential penalty.

Everyone's a genius on hindsight hor.... Very Happy

In theory, sure, you're right. In real life?

Do you go back to the tee to drive another ball when you find that your first ball is out of bounds? Very Happy
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:52 pm

tronos wrote:
Hopefully this does not hinder Padraig's comeback. He is one guy that needs a break. The other guy is sergio.

Sergio's the one who really needs a break man. He has yet to win a major.

Padraig's got two majors in the bag already, just a bit down in the dumps of late. Still hasn't worked out his new swing yet I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:01 pm

Always good to read BM's analysis. such a clear and precise writer.. and with research!
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:11 pm

Embarassed Make me paiseh....

We're all just here for the love of the game..

And fellowship with like minded people. Swing
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:46 pm

Birdman wrote:
tronos wrote:

The sad thing is the player knew he touched the ball but probably forgot at that very moment, the rule that he can reposition the ball with no penalty, and tried to 'get away with it'. The reason that he thought the ball did not move is a bit weak. If he knew the rules he would just go thru the motion of repositioning the ball back to the original position to avoid any potential penalty.

Everyone's a genius on hindsight hor.... Very Happy

In theory, sure, you're right. In real life?

Do you go back to the tee to drive another ball when you find that your first ball is out of bounds? Very Happy

Lol that's another rule that was not settled in this forum many months ago. Locally I think drop a ball and take 2 penalty stroke (no such official rule) while some insist that the person go back and rehit. Now days I just hit a provisional ball as long as I think my ball may be out of bounds
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:26 am

Played properly, if a ball is out of bounds, then you return to the tee to hit another drive since it is a stroke and distance penalty. There is no such thing as a local rule that allows a 2 stroke penalty and the ball to be played from where it went out of bounds.

The smart way is the way you play it. If there is even a hint that the ball may be out of bounds, after the rest of your flight has teed off and before your flight leaves the teee, declare first that you are hitting a provisional ball then proceed to tee off again. Then there is no need to return to the tee to re-tee off, wasting time and holding up flights behind, and in the process embarrassing oneself.
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alangolf
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:56 am

Hi Mizzy,
On Dustin case, I'm not familiar with it so I could've been wrong somewhere. My bad Embarassed
On 'nobody knows it's not a problem', i'm literally saying nobody knows - players, spectators, officials etc. So how can it be an issue?
Guess I'm missing the drift of the discussion here since few people pointed out. I accept that.

Birdman,
I agree that rules changes. So have a rule that ban TV referee. Till then....


Last edited by alangolf on Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:09 am

look at the real problem.. Signing of the scorecard...really the officials cannot keep score for the players? It's tradition but if they can have tv replay reviews why not computerized scoring. In this case if it was computerized scoring, only a adjustment to the score will be made instead of dq. Money is at stake here for the player and company
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:19 am

Birdman wrote:
tronos wrote:
Hopefully this does not hinder Padraig's comeback. He is one guy that needs a break. The other guy is sergio.

Sergio's the one who really needs a break man. He has yet to win a major.

Padraig's got two majors in the bag already, just a bit down in the dumps of late. Still hasn't worked out his new swing yet I guess.

To me, Paddy is a class act. He's got great personality and a good game. He may have had a slump of late but that shouldn't stop him from playing well in the near future.

Having read the comments, I think we're nowhere. If you ask me, the referees should be given a certain period of time to make a decision and it's a decision which they have to come to on their own. They cannot be relying on feedback from non-referees. The referees are, after all, paid to do a job and if they didn't catch it when it happened, then that's just the way of things work.

I'd hate to watch a game where every single movement, every single step and every single stroke is under the scrutiny of those who are not responsible or required to referee. If otherwise, the game would descend into an audience-grumblin' match over who saw what and what should be or should have been done.

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asahi
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:00 am

Yup yup. Too bad if the referees missed the mistake made, let it go.
If they spotted it, fine. Players get penalized, even if the offense is silly or seems updated, fair enough.
Imagine a football/golf game whereby the game is constantly interjected by calls from spectators to investigate this and that offence, there would be no end to the game.
And for golf, we'd be watching an 8 hrs game instead of 4-5 hrs because of all these interjections.


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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:39 pm

alangolf wrote:
Hi Mizzy,
On 'nobody knows it's not a problem', i'm literally saying nobody knows - players, spectators, officials etc. So how can it be an issue?
Guess I'm missing the drift of the discussion here since few people pointed out. I accept that.

so you mean if paddy didn't think or declare the ball moved, and the TV audience didn't see or saw it but didn't bother to complain, and the officials did not catch it, then the possible infringement or definite infringement will slip thorough?

well yes of course it would slip through.. sneaky!
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:25 am

I caught the repeat broadcast yesterday morning and it so happened that Padraig was in the commentator's booth after being DQed. It was enlightening to hear his description of the incident in his own words.

He acknowledged he was somewhat a student of the rules and that he knew he could have replaced the ball with no penalty if it had moved (which it did) while in the act of marking his ball. He knew he had touched the ball, and on checking from his vantage point looking down, he was quite sure the ball had not moved, for the reason that the Titleist logo still looked to be in the same aligned position as it was before (who with his naked eye can tell that his ball moved a dimple and a half?)

I recall now a tournament last year at some coastal course and Padraig was playing. It was so windy, balls on the green moved just from the wind. No, not moved... rolled. Play had to stop and officials had to periodically test if the wind would move balls. Play resumed finally and Padraig was on the green with the ball lined up, ready to putt. He took his stance and as he set the putter down to address the ball, the wind moved his Titleist. No one else had noticed, but he stepped back and called for an official. Again it was one of those grey areas, had he already addressed the ball or not when it moved? No one was sure until the replay confirmed that he had. To me the incident left no doubt in my mind as to Padraig Harrington's moral integrity.


Last edited by Birdman on Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:08 am

thanks BM. well, we all know that that dimple and a half on the putting green was no advantage realistically. (unless you are me and the ball always stops 1 dimple short of the hole.. haha)

its so weird that we can pick our ball up to clean and yet placing it back, i'm sure we will never get it to the exact same spot on the same dimple it rests on or not.. hehe..
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:56 am

There is no doubting the man's integrity in golf. Amen!
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:03 am

asahi wrote:
There is no doubting the man's integrity in golf. Amen!

yes.. i would have to say that many pros out there playing every week. under the scrutiny of spectators and TV.. its not about integrity, its just the spot light on it being a flawless game..
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:45 am

Birdman wrote:
I recall now a tournament last year at some coastal course and Padraig was playing. It was so windy, balls on the green moved just from the wind. No, not moved... rolled. Play had to stop and officials had to periodically test if the wind would move balls. Play resumed finally and Padraig was on the green with the ball lined up, ready to putt. He took his stance and as he set the putter down to address the ball, the wind moved his Titleist. No one else had noticed, but he stepped back and called for an official. Again it was one of those grey areas, had he already addressed the ball or not when it moved? No one was sure until the replay confirmed that he had. To me the incident left no doubt in my mind as to Padraig Harrington's moral integrity.

Hear hear!

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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:20 pm

Technospaz wrote:
The referees are, after all, paid to do a job and if they didn't catch it when it happened, then that's just the way of things work.

Bro TS, unfortunately there isn't a referee assigned to every flight to witness the entire round only rules official is called in when the need arises. Thus, we can't say that they are not doing their job. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:53 pm

nutty88 wrote:
Technospaz wrote:
The referees are, after all, paid to do a job and if they didn't catch it when it happened, then that's just the way of things work.

Bro TS, unfortunately there isn't a referee assigned to every flight to witness the entire round only rules official is called in when the need arises. Thus, we can't say that they are not doing their job. Smile

I didn't say that they aren't doing their job but I can understand how you would read the same.

What I meant is that the referees can only do so much. Even if we stationed a ref at every hole, they may not pick up issues like these. It is left to the golfer to declare it him/herself and if it's something why he/she does not (either out of ignorance or foul play), then that's there's little else which can be done.

I wonder what it would be like if we flipped the matter around and did a poll of the TV audience to see how many of them thought that Dustin was hitting out of a bunker when he grounded his club.

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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:55 pm

Swing sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:56 pm

cenbale..are you going to put ALL smileys until you reach 20 posts?
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:48 pm

if you watch the video in real time, it would seem to the tv audiences that its obvious the ball moved (dont need to slow down the video can see liao as claimed). Just see 4 yourself, there are many videos. You take a golf ball and see how big 3 dimple actually is, its sounds small but see it for yourself.

However TV audience sit in their sofa comfortably, eyes fixed on the screen, so sure they can easily pick this out. They can pickout a familiar face out of a crowd of thousands in a few seconds. They can pick out small mistakes in cinema movies in fast moving scenes flashed for a few seconds. There are too many 'professional' couch potatoes.

The funny thing about all the arguments i read in other sites is that ppl complain on how ancient golf rules are but then at the same breath scoff at 'modern' influences such as super slo-mo and audience feedback . Unfortunately I happen to be like them so it show one cannot please everybody. The officials will ask "you want traditional or modern?"

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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:57 am

Remember there was one tournament in which a pro double hit the golf ball while chipping it onto the green? This was caught on slow-mo and it was replayed many times. Can't recall which event and golfer it was but he was penalized. Was that an audience call-in?
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PostSubject: Re: Rules-R-Rules but this is stupid le   Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:00 pm

Birdman wrote:
Played properly, if a ball is out of bounds, then you return to the tee to hit another drive since it is a stroke and distance penalty. There is no such thing as a local rule that allows a 2 stroke penalty and the ball to be played from where it went out of bounds.

The smart way is the way you play it. If there is even a hint that the ball may be out of bounds, after the rest of your flight has teed off and before your flight leaves the teee, declare first that you are hitting a provisional ball then proceed to tee off again. Then there is no need to return to the tee to re-tee off, wasting time and holding up flights behind, and in the process embarrassing oneself.

Hmmm... Remembered I was told I could drop a ball & take 2 strokes if I can't find my ball when I took my pc test in NSRCC. U mean no such rule?!!??!
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