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 Life span of shafts

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Gray
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PostSubject: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:48 am

Hi,

Is there a life span for shafts?

Will shafts loose their flex after too many hits or some number of years?

Are graphite shafts different from steel shafts?

Do shafts have an expiry date?

Many thanks for your valuable inputs

cheers
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:03 am

Most of the time, the shaft will last longer than our itchy backsides. Smile
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Gray
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:08 am

duffader wrote:
Most of the time, the shaft will last longer than our itchy backsides. Smile

That is true but since many bros here buy second hand stuff from the forum, it will be good to know if there is a lifespan to shafts. We know there is a lifespan to grips so if we buy an old set, we know that we shd factor in the cost of changing grips but what abt shafts?

Do steel last longer than graphite?
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:13 am

Gray... have not been able to determine an expiry date of the shaft yet... even after consultation with Master, we are not able to put a finger on exactly when does a shaft loses its supposed flex?

My Kajiki Prototype is still going strong after more than 82 weeks...
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:13 am

Gray wrote:
Do steel last longer than graphite?

depend if they get whacked more often or perspired onto more often... Smile
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:15 am

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
Gray... have not been able to determine an expiry date of the shaft yet... even after consultation with Master, we are not able to put a finger on exactly when does a shaft loses its supposed flex?

My Kajiki Prototype is still going strong after more than 82 weeks...

Maybe when the shaft true potential is not utilise, the shaft will last longer. Smile
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:16 am

Gray wrote:
duffader wrote:
Most of the time, the shaft will last longer than our itchy backsides. Smile

That is true but since many bros here buy second hand stuff from the forum, it will be good to know if there is a lifespan to shafts. We know there is a lifespan to grips so if we buy an old set, we know that we shd factor in the cost of changing grips but what abt shafts?

Do steel last longer than graphite?

Steel shaft easier to see cos if its bent, its easier to see, while graphite shaft, we cannot tell if there is any internal hairline crack.
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:22 am

It depends... if you're MC, excessive use will result in severe wear and tear... and possibly, blindness.

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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:27 am

wah raoz. what have u got against me? i am not the one with the literally cock posts...
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:27 am

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
wah raoz. what have u got against me? i am not the one with the literally cock posts...

But you really whack hard.

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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:32 am

but my arch-nemisis say i never utilize the shaft to its true potential...
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:37 am

True Potential of shaft = when your ball flies straight and to your potential distance.
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:40 am

Quote :
mUAr_cHEe wrote:
wah raoz. what have u got against me? i am not the one with the literally cock posts...

u talking about me?


but not literally mah.....I am quite diversified le
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Turbo
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:42 am

Yes, there should be a life span for golf shaft. As the saying goes, nothing is forever. The question is, how to determine other than when it fails?

When one starts to drive wayward shots on a particular driver, but does not happen when he uses another driver, it is a clear tell-tale sign the shaft on this particular driver need to be replaced - It has gone beyond its elastic phase in the tensile stress curve.

cheers
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DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:50 am

This one is a bit long winded but hopefully will give you better insights to golf shafts, particularly graphite.

Graphite shafts today are made by rolling micro layers of modulus graphite sheets or fibre composites (Pre-peg) in single or multiple directions. What's holding them together are resins which is acts as bonding agent as well as creating the stiffness or softeness of the shaft.

The difference between an expensive shaft and a cheaper OEM version is the type and quality of Pre-peg used, no of layers and the amount of handwork spent. of course there is technology involved like where you want the kick point, the amount of torque (and this can vary from tip to butt) stiffness and feel. the other very important consideration that layman do not know is the tonnage strength of the shaft. it can come in 30T right up to 90T. the higher the tonnage the more robust and stronger the shaft. Most OEM shafts use up to no more than 60T graphite.

Cheaper shafts tends to start from 8 sheets of wrap and a more expensive version can use up to 40 layers going in multiple directions (to create desired torque, feel and spin control and performance).

heres an example of different materials used on shafts.

modulus graphite sheet (variable thickness and composite materials)



Quadriaxial graphite sheet (Graphite strands weave into a net)



when you compare the 2 sheets, the quadriaxial will weight lighter but it can be made into a more dynamic and demanding product.



Assuming you are making a cheap 60g shafts with 8 layers of graphite sheet versus an expensive 60g with 36 multi-layers and multi-directional graphite shaft. the key difference are:

1. type and cost of Pre-peg - material composition, tonnage, thickness, weight and type
2. amount of handwork involved in rolling the graphite sheets into a shaft - this will create variable torques, feel and performance. some shaft are almost 100% handmade while some are almost 100% machine made.
3. amount of resin versus graphite
4. Research and developmental cost
5. Marketing cost

Hence you have to expect to pay more for a "better" shaft but are you paying more for a well-marketed shaft.

Zoom back to Grays question.

1. there is no fixed expiry date as how you keep your golf equipment varies. if you leave it in the car in an unsheltered condition, you are baking the shafts everyday. the resins react to heat and they will lose its integrity and hence the shaft may become softer or harder. in our climate usually softer and loses its torque faster.

2. graphite shafts are usually less resilient than steel shafts. but steel shafts can still bend and metal fatigue can still be expected particularly at the tip or butt area.

3. the expiry date is when your pocket thickens or when you BS itchy

DGman

PS most of the shaft manufacturer buys their graphite from Mitsubishi Rayon which is the world's biggest supplier. hence some of them will print, Material by Mitsubishi Rayon on their shafts to enhance value. Do not be fooled.

Commercial break....

i have been to several factories that makes steel shafts and graphite shafts and have spoken to their developers. Graman stands out as they made their own Pre-peg hence reducing the cost and are able to deliver a better product at a very competitive rate. BFG 8 series and Proto K use up to 90T Pre-peg

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Gray
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:22 am

Swee. Thanks DG man.

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DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:47 am

at least now you know why some bicycle frames can cost tens of thousands of $$$.

fishing rods are pretty much made the same way.

DGman

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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:09 am

DGman wrote:
at least now you know why some bicycle frames can cost tens of thousands of $$$.

Because it is yellow in colour and comes with a LIVESTRONG print and endorsed by United States Post Office.
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Master
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:33 am

mUAr_cHEe wrote:


My Kajiki Prototype is still going strong after more than 82 weeks...

that's what you think.

unless you mean it's going strong for your opponents Very Happy
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DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:56 am

why everyone tarok MC...he so KK meh?
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Master
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:59 am

DGman wrote:
why everyone tarok MC...he so KK meh?

my dearest Master,

you have to understand the relationship between MC and me.

It is a deep relationship that has lasted many eons and past lives. Our destiny has been intertwined ever since the sun and moon were created.

To say simply that I tarok MC is to degrade MC and me's long standing relationship.

It is much much deeper than that.........................................
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asahi
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:25 pm

Guess what M is trying to say is somewhat like, "hit is doting, scold is love." Razz
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DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:41 pm

don't take me wrong Esq Bate.

i think MC is asking for it most of the time.

DGman

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Master
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:06 pm

DGman wrote:
don't take me wrong Esq Bate.

i think MC is asking for it most of the time.

DGman


I have plenty of "it" to give to him.
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PostSubject: Re: Life span of shafts   Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:52 pm

DGman,

Alot of theories on the shaft material & technology have been said, what about the clubhead face? If one whacks the driver real hard very often, does the clubhead face life span deteriorates eventually, say, a significant reduction in COR?

Thanks in advance for your insight ...

Cheers,
Turbo bounce
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